Drowned in Calais Docks (Pte Crosby Leinster Regiment)

[Jervis]

Pte James Crosby, 3869 2/Leinsters a veteran of the Boer war, is recorded as being found drowned in Calais Docks on 23rd April 1916. 

 

Can anyone shed any light on the circumstances of his death? 

 

His MIC record once stated he deserted a month earlier on 26/03/1916 - but a line was subsequently drawn through that information. 

 

A  Newspaper article on his son’s death, states he was returning home when he drowned. Further info Here (not my website)

His son Michael a Connaught Ranger seems to have died following a brawl in his home town. I’d be interested in any further information relating to that story to. 

 

Thanks in advance

Jervis

 

 

 

[clive_hughes]

Jervis,

member AndyJohnson posted a link on 28.12.2012 to an official site set up by Calais Town Council which seems to give access to images of death certificates of foreign soldiers etc. who died in the area of the town during 1914-18:

 

http://www.calais.fr/archives/index.php

 

I managed to get some for casualties in which I was interested back then, so hopefully this might work for you.  His widow Bridget is described as sole legatee, and it seems a will is held by the Probate section of the National Archives of Ireland (proved August 1916).

 

Clive

[corisande]

Afraid I could not get anywhere with him. There does not seem to have been any newspaper reports

 

If anyone else is looking let me add the article from the Longford Leader and from "Longford at War" that you reference in your OP. He was serving under an alias, which always doubles the number of permutations that need to be input for searching

 

His real name was Thomas Crosbie, and he was serving as James Crosby (sic) when he died. He appears to have been 43 when he died, but CWGC have his age as 26

 

 

 

And Soldiers Effects has

 

[corisande]

Thomas is difficult to follow as he changes his name periodically

 

He joined the Rifle Brigade Militia as Thomas Crosbie, then goes on to serve in Connaught Rangers as Thomas Crosby. The change of name is probably not his fault as he could not write or read and enlists with "his mark"

 

Enlists as 3787 Connaught Rangers on 6 Aug 1890. He was "discharged with ignominy"  on 5 Dec 1891

 

Court records show him is local difficulties in Longford after this

 

I suspect that he served again before enlisting in Leinsters at the time of his death.

[FROGSMILE]

I hope that poor Bridget had some more sons to take care of her.

[Jervis]

Thank you Clive for the response and Corisande for your efforts. Much appreciated. 

 

I wonder if @museumtom came across any information in his research? 

Jervis

[museumtom]

Hello Jervis. I have 43 death certs of Irish soldiers from the Calais area but none for Crosby. I did not find anything other than he 'died'.

Sorry.

Kind regards.

 Tom.

[Jervis]

20 minutes ago, museumtom said:

Hello Jervis. I have 43 death certs of Irish soldiers from the Calais area but none for Crosby. I did not find anything other than he 'died'.

Sorry.

Kind regards.

 Tom.

Ok. Thank you Tom

[michaelpi]

Some disagreement as to the date of death, 23rd or 24th April, whilst the Register of Deaths at Calais states, found in the docks on 26th April, and that he seems to have been dead about three weeks.  Although the latter is presumably guesswork.

[Jervis]

21 minutes ago, michaelpi said:

Some disagreement as to the date of death, 23rd or 24th April, whilst the Register of Deaths at Calais states, found in the docks on 26th April, and that he seems to have been dead about three weeks.  Although the latter is presumably guesswork.

Thank you Michael. As he was originally noted as ‘deserted’ some weeks earlier on the 26/03/1916, it would not be surprising that his body was in the water for several weeks. 

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I hope that poor Bridget had some more sons to take care of her.

When I first read this thread I presumed [which is as bad as assumed!] that the "Found drowned in Calais docks" had probably come from James Crosby's pension card, which I had viewed, and that thus it was known - obviously now I can see it was also on his SE.

The main pension record card for James CROSBY 3869 is therefore now attached for interest.

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3 - With thanks

Other sons are recorded.

:-) M

[FROGSMILE]

32 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

When I first read this thread I presumed [which is as bad as assumed!] that the "Found drowned in Calais docks" had probably come from James Crosby's pension card, which I had viewed, and that thus it was known - obviously now I can see it was also on his SE.

The main pension record card for James CROSBY 3869 is therefore now attached for interest.

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3 - With thanks

Other sons are recorded.

:-) M

Thank you, it’s interesting and somehow reassuring that she had two more sons and a daughter, albeit there seems to have been recoveries as weekly deductions, presumably because the pension was started too early, but I can’t quite make it out.

The drowning must be a story in itself, especially as he was allegedly heading home for a spot of leave.  Perhaps inebriated on back pay (usually issued before leave) and fallen in the dock.  Presumably no inquest because of the war.  It would have been almost impossible to prove anything beyond misadventure I imagine.

Edited 10 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[museumtom]

There is a lot of this not adding up lads.

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/470934/J CROSBY/

He was 26 in the CWGC, served in the Boer War, his wife was born in 1873 (folder3). Have we a father and a son all mixed up together?

If he is Husband of Bridget (nee Manning) Crosby, Little Water Street, Longford. Father of Margaret, 1902, James, 1906, Patrick, 1909 and Anne, 1912...this means when his daughter Margaret in 1902 was born he was 12 and his wife was 29?

Or have I not got a proper grasp on this?

[corisande]

7 minutes ago, museumtom said:

There is a lot of this not adding up lads.

 

Tom,

 

I pointed out the CWGC anomaly in my first post (no. 3).

 

I have no idea why the CWGC got the age wrong, but as far as I can see that is the only anomaly.

 

The pension card records his birth as 1873. And I think everything else fits with him being born 1873.

[museumtom]

Ah right, thanks David.

[RussT]

There is a transcription error evidently introduced during the digitisation process in scanning the original grave registration details, which states his age as 36 (not 26 as per the digitised record).

 

Regards

 

Russ

[FROGSMILE]

There seems much more to the death of his son, but the implication is that those involved closed ranks.  Hard times at home, as well as in France and Flanders.

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, corisande said:

The pension card records his birth as 1873.

I don't think that 1873 was necessarily the year of birth for James - it might have been, but ... ????

I believe that that 5.5.73 date is for his wife, Bridget - pensions were raised for widows over 35 [which is why such a birth date was included on pension cards]

:-) M

 

Edit: - Having reread earlier posts = We have the date of 5.10.1873 in your earlier post [not sure of its origins though] - which would seem to support my belief above.

Edited 10 January , 2021 by Matlock1418
edit

[corisande]

There seems much more to the death of his son, but the implication is that those involved closed ranks.  Hard times at home, as well as in France and Flanders.

 

I think you are right there. There is nothing in the Irish Press that I can find. There should have been a civilian inquest but I cannot find it Martial Law did not apply in Cork in 1916

 

 

[Jervis]

The images are of the war memorial in the main square of Longford - with both men’s names. 

[Matlock1418]

54 minutes ago, RussT said:

There is a transcription error evidently introduced during the digitisation process in scanning the original grave registration details, which states his age as 36 (not 26 as per the digitised record).

 

Regards

 

Russ

Certainly there is a query at CWGC - by their own hand!

The Little Water Street, Longford, address would tie in with his widow, Bridget, and the pension card above.

Crosby spelling of his surname and parentage seem a bit uncertain at CWGC when read here and in Corisande's first post in this thread.

His son is commemorated by CWGC as Crosbie.

Oh what a wicked web has been woven!

:-) M

[Jervis]

19 minutes ago, corisande said:

There seems much more to the death of his son, but the implication is that those involved closed ranks.  Hard times at home, as well as in France and Flanders.

 

I think you are right there. There is nothing in the Irish Press that I can find. There should have been a civilian inquest but I cannot find it Martial Law did not apply in Cork in 1916

 

 

Agreed. As a matter of interest, where do you search for records relating to an Inquest - Findmypast? 

[Matlock1418]

3 minutes ago, Jervis said:

The images are of the war memorial in the main square of Longford - with both men’s names. 

As Crosby.

And with 'James' as Thomas.

As above!!!

:-) M

[Jervis]

😁

[FROGSMILE]

40 minutes ago, corisande said:

There seems much more to the death of his son, but the implication is that those involved closed ranks.  Hard times at home, as well as in France and Flanders.

 

I think you are right there. There is nothing in the Irish Press that I can find. There should have been a civilian inquest but I cannot find it Martial Law did not apply in Cork in 1916

 

 

Yes, I’m surprised that there wasn’t an inquest.  Although autopsies were dependent on circumstances, I thought that inquests were obligatory by law?  Was there a pause because of the war?