2/Lieutenant Charles John Lawrence Langlands Surrey Yeomanry & RGA

[Douglas29]

Dear Forum Colleagues,

I have been asked to research the above individual’s military career, in 1926 he became Clerk of the Epsom Race Course a position held for nearly 30year.

Through Ancestry & his Medal Roll Index Card, I have the following information

 

Pte Surrey Yeomanry no 1900 & T/45209

2/Lt 3 96 Siege Battery RGA 13-7-1918

 

My questions are:

> am I right with the Surrey Yeomanry number he would have signed up c August 1914

> between 1914 & July 1918 I am unable to find him albeit he was entitled to 1914-15 star, as well as VM & BWM ( all under Surrey Yeomanry). - any assistance to throw light on this period would be great

> the Medal Roll index card looks like he was commissioned into 396 Siege Battery, RGA. I do not think such a unit existed, rather should I read it 3/96 Siege Battery?

 

Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

Douglas
 

 

[ororkep]

Re your third question: I can confirm that Langlands served with 396 Sge Bty in Salonika.

Rgds Paul

[Douglas29]

Thanks Paul,

 

I appreciate the fast response 

[PRC]

Longer term the answers you seek are going to probably be in his officer file at Kew:-

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1172338

 

I can’t give you a date of enlistment but looking at his MiC I think his initial service number in the Surrey Yeomanry was T/1900.

 

Turning to the Long, Long Trail, the three Squadrons of the 1/1st Surrey Yeomanry were split up in November 1914, with:-

 A Squadron landing Le Havre 22nd December 1914 and sailing for Salonika on the 26th January 1916.

B Squadron landed Le Havre 18th January 1915 and sailing for Salonika on the 2nd December 1915

C Squadron sailed for Gallipoli , landing Alexandria 2nd April 1915, then Imbros 26th June 1915. (never actually landed Gallipoli) and via Egypt to France 11th March 1916.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-yeomanry-regiments-of-1914-1918/surrey-yeomanry-queen-marys-regiment/

 

Turning back to the MiC, this shows he landed in France on the 18th July 1915. He would have been going out as a replacement, so likely he was previously with the 2/1st Surrey Yeomaney, (raised September 1914), rather than the 3/1st (formed February 1915) – details from the LLT page.

 

So that means he joined either “A” or “B” Squadron on his arrival in France.

 

Supplement to the London Gazette, 24 February 1916, Page 2073 shows that 1900 Lance Corporal Charles John Lawrence Langlands, Surrey Yeomanry  was awarded the Croix de Guerre by the President of the French Republic, (along with many others).

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29486/supplement/2073/data.pdf

List starts on page 2068: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29486/supplement/2068/data.pdf

 

At the start of 1917 all other ranks serving with the Territorial Force received new numbers to replace the hodge-podge of existing service number schemes.

 

In the 1917 renumbering of the Territorials, the Surrey Yeomanry were issued numbers from the block 45001-50000, Corps of Lancers. (Again from the LLT page).

 

It’s an informed guess but I expect service number 45209 would most likely have been issued to someone in “A” Squadron. They:-

 

embarked at Marseilles for service at Salonika on 26 January 1916 and disembarked at Salonika on 11 February; left division and formed XVI Corps Cavalry on 27 December 1916. Remained in Salonika for rest of war.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-yeomanry-regiments-of-1914-1918/surrey-yeomanry-queen-marys-regiment/

 

The MiC shows he was commissioned 14th July 1918.

 

In fact the Supplement to the London Gazette, 31 July 1918 shows the commission effective 15th July 1918. He was one of a number of (Officer) Cadets who were to be temporary Second Lieutenants in the Royal Garrison Artillery.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30822/supplement/9070/data.pdf

 

The MiC itself shows him as a 2nd Lieutenant in 396 Siege Battery.

 

As an Officer he had to apply for his medals. His contact address in what looks to be August 1919 is Hazon House, Epsom. Confirmation of his entitlement had come from General Headquarters British Salonika in March 1919.

 

All of his medals appear to have been issued by the Records Office dealing with the Yeomanry, going from the roll references.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, Douglas29 said:

am I right with the Surrey Yeomanry number he would have signed up c August 1914

 

Surrey Yeomanry 1899 signed up 28/8/14 and has a surviving service record

    Langlands        1900

Surrey Yeomanry 1901 signed up 28/8/14 and has a surviving service record

 

So 28/8/14 would be a safe bet.

 

charlie

[Douglas29]

Dear PRC

Dear Charlie962

 

many thanks for providing the additional information on Langlands. Will follow up and obtain his officer record.
The detail provided by all, will assist in the writing of an article on CJL Langland for  the Cobham History Society due for publication in March. I will now seek out the Unit history of the 396 Sge Bty

 

thank you

 

Douglas

 

[charlie962]

39 minutes ago, PRC said:

Supplement to the London Gazette, 24 February 1916, Page 2073 shows that 1900 Lance Corporal Charles John Lawrence Langlands, Surrey Yeomanry  was awarded the Croix de Guerre by the President of the French Republic, (along with many others).

Are you sure it wasn't the Medaille Militaire ? There is a change of awards part way through those pages of the LG

Edited 30 December , 2020 by charlie962

[charlie962]

courtesy Findmypast newspapers:

[PRC]

3 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Are you sure it wasn't the Medaille Militaire ? There is a change of awards part way through those pages of the LG

 

I stand corrected - page 2071

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29486/supplement/2071/data.pdf

 

For the two individuals you found

1899 Claud Walker Ensor Mount, a Stock Exchange Clerk, looks like he went 2nd Surrey Yeomanry then 3/1st before being posted to "A" Squadron in Salonika in January 1917. He was renumbered 45289.

 

1901 Harold Bowyer. Also looks like he went 2nd Surrey Yeomanry, but as he lands Le Havre on the 15th January 1915 he must have been with "B" Squadron 1/1st by then. He was renumbered 45291, so possibly renumbering was done based on original number roll rather than unit being served with.

 

27 minutes ago, Douglas29 said:

I will now seek out the Unit history of the 396 Sge Bty

 

Douglas,

 

As far as I'm aware War Diaries for the Salonika Theatre of War aren't available online, so would require a visit to Kew when it re-opens.

 

War Diaries for the Squadrons for the periods they were in France & Flanders can be found online - the ones at Kew can currently be downloaded for free.

"A" Squadron for December 1914 to October 1915: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353445

"B" Squadron for February 1915 to October 1915: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353494

Unlikely to mention him by name but will give a feel for where they were and what they were up to.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

[Douglas29]

Dear Peter,

Dear Charlie,

 

many thanks again for all your assistance.

 

regards

 

douglas

[charlie962]

There is a History of the Surrey Yeomanry. I have a copy somewhere, having had a Gt uncle who served there-in prewar. It may also be available online somewhere?

[Douglas29]

I have just found a copy on-line, printed 1928 & written by E D Harrison-Ainsworth, many thanks