Some help with name of regiment needed if possible ...

[FROGSMILE]

11 minutes ago, Kaz said:

Yes that is strange but I guess there could be other reasons for his being there. If you are able to shed light on it then that would be great. Don't worry if not.

Karen

The more I think about it the more annual training fortnight makes sense.  It was a key part of the terms and conditions of service for Militia and as well as generally being enjoyed by the men (the closest thing to a paid-holiday given that they worked short-days, could play sport, drink in the unit canteen, and walk-out of camp in their best scarlets and flirt with local girls in the late afternoons), it was also the key activity that authorised the annual lump payment that they received known as the annual ‘Bounty’.  All the garrison towns (such as Devonport) had local training areas and camping grounds and it was on these that the Militia encamped each summer and made use of the training facilities.

 

The medal was a good spot by Pete (Corporal Punishment) and a key factor in tracking the logic of this down.  I reckon that you’ve indeed cracked the mystery.

Edited 31 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Kaz]

I was looking at something else on 2 Bn Glosters which mentioned Devonport also. So yes I think it is all correct, thanks also to Pete re the medal. Would the payment made also be called War Gratuity?

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Kaz said:

I was looking at something else on 2 Bn Glosters which mentioned Devonport also. So yes I think it is all correct, thanks also to Pete re the medal. Would the payment made also be called War Gratuity?

No, the war gratuity was a separate payment specifically relating to a war, rather than just an annual bounty for meeting the obligation to attend annual training.

Edited 31 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[ss002d6252]

10 hours ago, Kaz said:

I was looking at something else on 2 Bn Glosters which mentioned Devonport also. So yes I think it is all correct, thanks also to Pete re the medal. Would the payment made also be called War Gratuity?

To add to what has been mentioned regarding the war gratuity, pre-war a regular soldier accrued a service gratuity which was a pot that built up and was paid out when he left the army. (service gratuity entitlement was expanded during the war but that, like war gratuity, is a whole topic in itself).

Craig

[Muerrisch]

10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

The more I think about it the more annual training fortnight makes sense.  It was a key part of the terms and conditions of service for Militia and as well as generally being enjoyed by the men (the closest thing to a paid-holiday given that they worked short-days, could play sport, drink in the unit canteen, and walk-out of camp in their best scarlets and flirt with local girls in the late afternoons), it was also the key activity that authorised the annual lump payment that they received known as the annual ‘Bounty’.  All the garrison towns (such as Devonport) had local training areas and camping grounds and it was on these that the Militia encamped each summer and made use of the training facilities.

 

The medal was a good spot by Pete (Corporal Punishment) and a key factor in tracking the logic of this down.  I reckon that you’ve indeed cracked the mystery.

 

The fortnight was for the Volunteer Force. 

Militia training and annual training was much longer and a massive commitment.

 

Below is a Precis. E & OE

 

Before Annual training an infantry recruit had to attend 49 days drills [possibly the "days" were evening attendance] at the Depot, and 14 days musketry. There was special provision for recruits joining close to the Annual Training.

 

Militia Regs 1904 para 198. and 199 [ virtually unchanged since 1895]

 

Annual Training.

Pay during these long periods of battalion training was at Regular rates, totalling 27/- for in infantry private.  Recruits and trained Militiamen could rely on a Bounty of £1..10 on completion of the annual training, and a further £1..0 on 1st October, 1st December and 1st February. Attendance at specialised Courses attracted a further £1 each. Looking at the terms and conditions, service as a Militiaman might only attract the leisured gentry, the unemployed and casual labourers. There was no recommended period of the year: for annual training: commanding officers were to liaise with local employers.

 

Field Artillery 56 days

RE 41 days

RE Submarine miners 55 days

Infantry and RAMC 27 Days. There was a liability of 56 days for any militiaman, plus the possibility of embodiment.

 

Infantry battalions were to be trained, wherever possible, in Brigade, on approved locations.

Popular seaside resorts where sufficient training ground is not available not to be used.

 

The small print makes it clear that any failure to perform annual training needed a very good reason.

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

Yes I’m aware that the Militia annual training for infantry was longer at 27-days for infantry, you’ve posted that detail before not that long ago.  
 

For the purpose of this particular thread and inquiry I didn’t feel that much detail was appropriate.  I was generalising for the lady concerned regarding why a militiaman might be at Devonport, as I’m sure you realise.  
 

Not every poster is steeped in the minutiae that you are and I try in such cases to make things as simple as possible.  Were I explaining the detail of the terms and conditions of service of the auxiliary forces I’d have quoted from The Constitutional Force, or pasted from the previous posts mentioned.  In this case it didn’t seem necessary or profitable to the inquiry, which aims to identify the regiment concerned.

 

All that said, I’m sure that the lady will find what you’ve written of general interest given that the soldier shown appears to have been a militiaman.

Edited 5 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Kaz]

37 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

To add to what has been mentioned regarding the war gratuity, pre-war a regular soldier accrued a service gratuity which was a pot that built up and was paid out when he left the army. (service gratuity entitlement was expanded during the war but that, like war gratuity, is a whole topic in itself).

Craig

Thanks Craig

[Kaz]

38 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

 

The fortnight was for the Volunteer Force. 

Militia training and annual training was much longer and a massive commitment.

 

Below is a Precis. E & OE

 

Before Annual training an infantry recruit had to attend 49 days drills [possibly the "days" were evening attendance] at the Depot, and 14 days musketry. There was special provision for recruits joining close to the Annual Training.

 

Militia Regs 1904 para 198. and 199 [ virtually unchanged since 1895]

 

Annual Training.

Pay during these long periods of battalion training was at Regular rates, totalling 27/- for in infantry private.  Recruits and trained Militiamen could rely on a Bounty of £1..10 on completion of the annual training, and a further £1..0 on 1st October, 1st December and 1st February. Attendance at specialised Courses attracted a further £1 each. Looking at the terms and conditions, service as a Militiaman might only attract the leisured gentry, the unemployed and casual labourers. There was no recommended period of the year: for annual training: commanding officers were to liaise with local employers.

 

Field Artillery 56 days

RE 41 days

RE Submarine miners 55 days

Infantry and RAMC 27 Days. There was a liability of 56 days for any militiaman, plus the possibility of embodiment.

 

Infantry battalions were to be trained, wherever possible, in Brigade, on approved locations.

Popular seaside resorts where sufficient training ground is not available not to be used.

 

The small print makes it clear that any failure to perform annual training needed a very good reason.

 

 

Thanks for the info.  I only asked about the Gratuity Payment because it is mentioned on the Service Record and as frogsmile had posted about receiving payment at Devonport I wondered if there was any connection.  I have my answers now but thanks for taking an interest.

[Muerrisch]

9 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes I’m aware that the Militia annual training for infantry was longer at 27-days for infantry, you’ve posted that detail before not that long ago.  
 

For the purpose of this particular thread and inquiry I didn’t feel that much detail was appropriate.  I was generalising for the lady concerned regarding why a militiaman might be at Devonport, as I’m sure you realise.  
 

Not every poster is steeped in the minutiae that you are and I try in such cases to make things as simple as possible.  We’re I explaining the detail of the terms and conditions of service of the auxiliary forces I’d have quoted from The Constitutional Force, or pasted from the previous posts mentioned.  In this case it didn’t seem necessary or profitable to the inquiry, which aims to identify the regiment concerned.

 

All that said, I’m sure that the lady will find what you’ve written of general interest given that the soldier shown appears to have been a militiaman.

 

The GWF is a repository of great value to many, and will continue to be so, provided that it  maintains accuracy wherever possible

It serves no good purpose to knowingly post inaccurate material. [it would have been as easy to write 27 days as a fortnight] .

 

Answers to queries are not just a two-way dialogue, where keeping matters simple might be justifiable. Posterity uses SEARCH in the hope of gathering information.

Where someone with access to the minutiae can politely set the record straight, I would hope that would always happen.  I hope that you agree.

[FROGSMILE]

Not really, in this particular scenario it just comes across as point scoring to be honest.  

[Kaz]

13 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

That certainly fits perfectly with the white facings in both photos Karen.  To corroborate matters perfectly I just need to try and tie one of the two Gloucestershire Regiment regular battalions with Devonport.  It’s a bit puzzling though because the Militia battalions of each regiment usually embodied (mobilised) and disembodied (demobilised) from their respective regimental depots, which in the Glosters case was Horfield Barracks, Bristol.  There would ostensibly be no reason for him to be at Devonport as a Militiaman unless he was temporarily attached to a regular battalion that was there.  Perhaps it was for his annual, fortnight’s training camp that year, which would then make sense.

 

I have been trying to track down who was at Devonport between 1905 and 1914, but it’s proving more difficult than other periods.  I don’t think the photo was taken later than 1905 anyway, and from what you’ve said 1904 fits with him being at Corporal and we know the two battalions at Devonport that year.

 

Thanks for these pics. 

[Muerrisch]

11 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Not really, in this particular scenario it just comes across as point scoring to be honest.  

 

I cannot find reference to Militia Training periods or details of Bounty in "The Constitutional Force". Please can you point me in the right direction?

[FROGSMILE]

3 hours ago, Kaz said:

Thanks for these pics. 

I’m glad to have been some small assistance Kate.

 

The 2nd Battalion of the Gloucestershire Regiment (a unit of regular, professional soldiers) was based in Devonport between 1894 and 1897, when they departed.

 

 

Edited 31 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Kaz]

10 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I’m glad to have been some small assistance Kate.

 

The 2nd Battalion of the Gloucestershire Regiment (a unit of regular, professional soldiers) was based in Devonport between 1894 and 1897, when they departed.

 

 

Thanks for these too. I have also since found reference to the fact that the soldier was present for and completed his training. Karen

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Kaz said:

Thanks for these too. I have also since found reference to the fact that the soldier was present for and completed his training. Karen

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Glad to help Kate.  It’s interesting to see the ratification of his annual training.  Happy New Year to you too.

Edited 1 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE