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Bullecourt October 1917


gdc
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Hi All,

  Reading about  the Bullecourt Battle I can't l understand why the 90th Heavy Battery was still the shelling this area in October 1917 mainly the mebus's , and reporting them as 'destroyed' as mentioned in thier war diaries. I would have thought these would have been either taken and destroyed during the initial battles.

The accounts say the battle lasted from April to May 1917 , although I do understand that the front line occupation was always changing and may have been skirmishes after.

 Does anyone know of any further actions in this area please or have I missed something.

Thanks

     Graham

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The War Diary of the 90th Heavy Battery for October 1917 gives a map reference for their location rather than a place. This is Sheet 28. O.3.d.0.0

My reading of this is that they were based in Belgium, and had been in that position since 20 July 1917.

Bullecourt is on map sheet 51b

On 2nd October the Diary mentions Dammstrasse and Pheasant Wood which are located NE of Wytschaete.

Martin

Edited by tootrock
Extra information added
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Hi Martin,

               Thanks for the information.

                I have have seen a  few accounts writen about Bullecourt and seem to be very similar and seem to end in June .

As for the war diaries I have  down loaded four or five from the PRO Kew for the Heavy Batteries for 1917, some are quite difficult to read and I have only just glanced at them ,they are quite interesting and well written.

   I think also I will have to track down a copy of  Sheet 28 so as to gain a full picture.

 

Regards

                   Graham

             

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19 hours ago, tootrock said:

This is Sheet 28. O.3.d.0.0

My reading of this is that they were based in Belgium

Damm Strasse is visible at the bottom of the aerial (straight line) and Eikhof Farm in the top right.  It's an October 1917 trench map from National Library of Scotland and tMapper.  Image from WFA.

 

image.png.629a92fd96f260790edb8fbec92d7431.png

image.png.db627ea7b9d471771bfb6295fc9965fa.png

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12 hours ago, gdc said:

As for the war diaries I have  down loaded four or five from the PRO Kew for the Heavy Batteries for 1917, some are quite difficult to read and I have only just glanced at them ,they are quite interesting and well written.

Which diaries specifically mention these events?

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Hi All,

      Thanks for all the information. I don't suppose I will ever be able to piece together all this .

The big guns seemed to be known by thier numbers and were 'pulled out' for maintainence,  barrels,broken trails  etc ,on a regular basis ,and  probably ended up in parts and renumbered then sent to other artillery groups as as required as well as thier 'gunners'.

        Also there seems to be , according to some of the diaries HAGs ,Group, Baterries alot of movement  and were 'entrained' and moved on a regular basis as the Front changed and any asignment of the artillery were required.

       I do find that some of the Australian /ANZAC accounts very interesting ,but puting them together with the Engish ones is a mammoth task.

 

 The war Diary of 90th Brigade  does not speifically mention Bullecourt uintill December ,( 90th Brigade RGA ,3rd Army ) ref: WO-95-397-1 , but were based around Henin Oct/Nov 1917--about pages 18-19 mentions the mebus's 'Argus''Vulcan' as targets  ,and the story fits in as well with some RFC Communcates for the same date about the weather (but perhaps not  the same area).

 

This is all very intreaging and hense my initial confusion and I will probaly never get to the bottom of it .

I thank you all for your interest and 'threads' ,much to follow up ,I think.

 

Regards to you all,

      Graham   

 

 

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I think there may be some confusion here. The original post mentions the 90th Heavy Battery RGA, and the last post mentions the 90th Brigade RGA. As far as I can see the 90th Heavy Battery were never at Bullecourt, indeed they were in Belgium for most of 1917, and then went to Italy in mid November.

Martin

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21 hours ago, tootrock said:

I think there may be some confusion here. The original post mentions the 90th Heavy Battery RGA, and the last post mentions the 90th Brigade RGA. As far as I can see the 90th Heavy Battery were never at Bullecourt, indeed they were in Belgium for most of 1917, and then went to Italy in mid November.

Martin

Yes that seems to be the source of the error.

 

90 Brigade (otherwise known as 90 Heavy Artillery Group , or HAG)  war diary as the OP states is WO95/97/1   WO95/397/1.                        90 Brigade RGA War Diary Link

90 HB (90 Heavy Battery)  war diary is only available for the period May 1917 to November 1917  at  WO 95/325/2                90 Heavy Battery war diary link

 

For the rest of the war period, you would need to consult with the war diaries of the specific HAG/Bde RGA, that 90 HB was part of.

Batteries were frequently moved/allocated between HAGs up til December 1917.

 

Document WO95/5494 lists the HAGs that each battery was part of.

I will try to look at my copy later, but if someone else posts the list first, then that will help the OP.

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
Typo in diary number
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Hi,

    This is true about the confusion.I will check and try to correct and clarify ...Thanks

Regards

      Graham  

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Hi All ,

   Managed to download the sugested reading .A fantastic read ...will keep me busy for ages.

Still haven't solved the confusion thing , could be an age thing ,but alot of information to sort through.

Dai suggested WO 95/97/1 . Mainly on Tanks ,a really interesting account of how tanks operated ,Pigeons etc

So good I downloaded all 4 parts for later.

Thanks for all the information.

Graham



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6 minutes ago, gdc said:

Hi All ,

   Managed to download the sugested reading .A fantastic read ...will keep me busy for ages.

Still haven't solved the confusion thing , could be an age thing ,but alot of information to sort through.

Dai suggested WO 95/97/1 . Mainly on Tanks ,a really interesting account of how tanks operated ,Pigeons etc

So good I downloaded all 4 parts for later.

Thanks for all the information.

Graham


 

Hi Graham,

Sorry to have misled you, that post of mine contained a typo.

90 HAG diary should have read WO95/397/1

Don't know how that happened...

The link I inserted  was correct though.

Sorry.

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