Bog Mine Platoon

[M Shaw]

Attached scans of the front and reverse of a photo of the above. An online search has failed to reveal the nature of this platoon though I knew the late grandson of L/Sgt George Betton (but left it too late to ask him). Out of general interest how common was it for mines to have such a unit and specifically does anyone know when this platoon was formed and whether there is anything in the photo to either suggest that the photo marked its formation or otherwise to give any dating clues. My main interest is to establish when buildings in the background or not yet in the background were built.

Mike Shaw

[travers61]

The units title may give some clue as to the date of the photo.

1881:  1st and 2nd Shropshire Rifle Volunteer Corps became the 1st and 2nd Volunteer Battalions of the KSLI.

1908:  1st and 2nd VBs were merged to form the 4th Battalion (Territorial Force) of the KSLI.

 

Also none of the men are wearing the Imperial Service Badge introduced to the TF in 1910 which signified their willingness to serve abroad.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_Force_Imperial_Service_Badge

[Robin Garrett]

I found this https://www.iarecordings.org/features/bog.html. None of the buildings in the article match the one in your photo.

[TEW]

There are a number of 'Bog' addresses in the 1911 census including ones for Betton, Chidley & Swain. Then there's Bog Gate. Miner's Arms, Bog. The Schoolhouse Bog.

 

You could work back to see how the 1911 census compares to 1901 - 1891 plus use small scale OS maps.

 

Not familiar with the area at all. Are you saying those buildings are no longer there or perhaps not at Bog?

 

I'd be surprised if Shropshire Archives have nothing on the mine (Ah! they have the original photo). Have they nothing else on the development or buildings.

 

If you're trying to locate where those buildings were, have you tried Google earth type things? Not seeing any Lidar coverage for Bog.

TEW

[M Shaw]

Gentlemen,

thanks for your thoughts. The power house prominent in the background was still a proposal on a blueprint of October 1913 of another part of the works though foundation blueprints for the gas engines it was to contain were prepared in January 1913. I believe all the power plant was demolished c1930 five years after the end of any serious mining. Attached a photo this Autumn from somewhere near where the photographer of the platoon stood. Is a platoon of this sort likely to have been formed before the war? Shropshire Archives, Google Earth and (low resolution) LiDAR have all been used with worthwhile though not final results. 

[CharlesPeter]

There are numerous entries for Bog Mine on the Discovering Shropshire History website (as Tew suggested) and one of these is to a c 1900 photo which to my eye looks to include the same buildings seen in the background to the photo of C company - see screenshot below.  You can see a pit head in the photo  which may help to orientate the image to the available historic OS mapping which includes the shafts.

 

Shropshire's History Advanced Search | Shropshire's History Advanced Search (shropshirehistory.org.uk)

 

 

 

The National Library of Scotland has online historic OS mapping and the link below is to an example for Bog Mine which is overlain on the modern day air photo which will show you where the now demolished buildings once stood. Slide the transparency to switch between the two.

 

Explore georeferenced maps - Map images - National Library of Scotland (nls.uk)

 

Hope this helps.

[M Shaw]

The image is about 1910, the 2 gabled building (barracks aka Cordon House) is the one in the platoon photo which had been refurbished by that date. The cottage on the far left is probably what is visible in the far left background of the platoon photo. This cottage must have been demolished shortly after the photo was taken and replaced with at least the producer gas plant which is one thing I am trying to date. Regrettably the entire power plant fell between the available published maps though the somewhat sketchy, undated but c1925-8 Abandoned Mine Plan (bit attached) does tell us what which building was assuming that, what was built 1910-14 was what survived to the end, 'New Gas Plant' which must have overlapped the above cottage is the big case in doubt.

[TEW]

I did think you had done alot more background work and were possibly involved with the visitor centre.

 

Assuming it's the same item the Shropshire archive have titled the photo;

 

The KSLI 'C' Company Bog Mines Platoon taken at The Bog during the 1914-18 war.

 

Then added c1915.

 

Referring back to the first reply it should date to 1881-1908.

 

It seems an easy task to locate the population of Bog (Mine) in 1911 but trying to find the same families in 1901 has only led me to some tentative IDs, for Swain either in Notts or Staffs as coal hewer. Geo Betton as Lead Miner at Round Hill.

TEW

[M Shaw]

There is much more still to do, I know and am known in the visitor centre, but not involved. I have seen two copies of the platoon photo, one belonged to a late friend, I am not sure which my electronic copy is from. I am aware of the archives dating but would like to sharpen it up, if possible. I cannot see how it can be as early as 1908, as noted earlier the relevant blueprints for the power house and gas plant date from 1913 at the earliest. I have tried searching for the officers and G Betton on the photo with no luck, though it is outside my usual research fields. I have not done much on the people though good work has been done by others (see 'Once upon a Hill'), in 1911 there are no entries which look to be for anyone living in the barracks/hostel/Cordon House which suggests that the refurbishment had not been finished by then, I shall look at the 1921 census in due course.

[TEW]

I see 33 men in the photo and 53 on the list. I see various cap badges including General Service Badge? and a few with no badge.

I can only make out 1 officer, 1 Sgt./L Sgt., & 3 Cpl./L Cpl. There may be others of course.

 

As far as the list is concerned the 'Volunteer Battalion' phrase should have been dropped in 1908.

 

Looks likely that the photo and list should not be together. In which case (noting the blueprints) perhaps the photo is war period.

 

Not my field at all so I hope someone else joins in but I think I can only see 4 KSLI cap badges out of 33 men. 15 with no badge, a couple of General Service and the remainder unknown to me.

 

Given their average age I doubt many went overseas.

TEW

[M Shaw]

The idea that the label and photo did not match is interesting, though I had counted the men and noted the anomaly. Having remembered who E C  Gray was I found that he was Edgar, in a limited search I cannot find an E C Gray in the KSLI but have found a 2/Lieut and a temporary ditto in the Manchester Regiment both 1916, same man? And one in the Mddx Reg 1917. 
Assuming we have only one E C Gray, if he was an officer prior to 1908 he presumably would not be in mine management in Shropshire, the platoon photo label and the photo, if he is the officer on it, are after his commission, how does one find out when that was? He drew a part of the Abandoned Mine Plan for Bog Mine on 11 Dec 1916, presumably he was not then an officer, or could he be an officer in the Bog Mine Platoon during the war without being a professional soldier?
How would one find the date of the formation of the Bog Mine Platoon?
Can one find the date when a non-commissioned officer was not-commissioned (possibly not the military term)
 

[ajsmith]

Edgar Charles Gray was still living in Cornwall in 1911 (from Census record) and working as a surveyor in the tin mining industry, so the photo and sheet must be after that date.

[M Shaw]

I have a note of ECG with the Halvans company at Snailbeach Mine in 1902, in view of the above I had better check my source.

[TEW]

A Bog Mines Platoon may have existed with the Shropshire Rifles Volunteer Corps. Wonder what the other platoons were called? London Gazette should have details of his commission and possibly when he relinquished his rank.

 

Assuming they're one and the same, ECG was born Redruth 1883. 1891 & 1901 censuses still in Redruth. Scholar then Engine Fitter aged 17.

 

18 year old ECG then at Snailbeach in 1902. Then 1911 back in Redruth.

 

Oak House, Minsterley in 1921 & 22.

 

Died in Shropshire 1965?

 

He's obviously on the VB list but is he in the (later?) photo.

Don't know if he continued service with 4th KSLI TF and not sure if he could have continued serving (TF) while mine management during the war.

 

If he had relinquished his rank prior to 1914 the pressure would be on to either;

1. Volunteer immediately.

2. Sign up under the Derby Scheme which would see him mobilised in the spring of 1916.

3. Wait until conscripted under the MSA. Hopefully make rank again.

 

There's an additional 2/Lt. EC Gray wounded in 1915 while with 11/Royal Fusiliers.

 

On the other hand we know nothing of his health circa 1914 (although he lived till 1965) or if he was exempt due to his occupation or if he served abroad.

TEW

 

[tootrock]

Is this of any help?

 

From the London Gazette, page 5678,11 May 1918:-

Shropshire Volunteer Regt.

2nd Bn - Edgar Charles Gray to be temp. 2nd Lt. 6 March 1918

 

Martin

[TEW]

From the previous post I now think the 2nd Volunteer Battalion KSLI was an unofficial VTC unit set up circa Aug 1914 for training and home defence. Became official in Nov 1914.

See here.

TEW

[M Shaw]

Thanks each for key information which I have yet to absorb. My idea that ECG was in Shropshire in 1902 seems incorrect, so far 1916 is the earliest confirmed date, I am currently looking for an article on him in a Shropshire Caving and Mining Club publication.

[travers61]

I see that pow labour was used at the mine 1917, and though I would expect this could have been supervised by guards from the pow camp/sub camp, maybe the platoon got involved in this.

 

1917: Aerial ropeway installed to carry baryte 5 miles for treatment at Minsterley, German prisoners of war used as labourers.

https://www.iarecordings.org/features/bog.html

[M Shaw]

Not sure when work on the ropeway  started but it was still underway in November 1918 as locals remember the German prisoners of war involved in its construction celebrating the armistice. Initially the Germans were housed in the Midland Railway yard at Coleham, Shrewsbury and marched to work daily from Minsterley Station. Later they occupied the 'Institute' (possibly mine offices at this date later a 'village hall') at Bog Mine, there is a suggestion that another building was used or used as well. Henry Jones of Pennerley remembers his grandmother telling him that they also used her shed for accommodation and  she supplemented their rations, in return they would tip ropeway buckets of coal out as they passed her house. The locals remember them with affection and as good craftsmen. The platoon may or may not have been involved.

[travers61]

Thats interesting to hear about how the pows worked and lived.

 

The only other thoughts I had about the reason for a platoon being at the Bog Mine is that they either had a role in guarding the mine, or if like coal miners the employees were not expected to volunteer for active service as they were on war work, and could also have initially been exempted from conscription. Thus there were men of military age, happy to do their bit in uniform , but not able to join the regular army.  This of course could have changed as it did with coal miners, who later in the war started to be conscripted.

 

 

[M Shaw]

I had wondered, it was the case in WW2 which may have been to do with the use of barite in the production of low strength hydrogen peroxide, but the Germans had developed a  much better method producing a better product, or even less likely barite, being fairly dense and inert could be used as a heavy filler bombs etc. I can't think why barite production would have been a reserved occupation earlier  though it was very good I believe in paints used underwater on ships and used for green flares/fireworks etc.

[FROGSMILE]

There are some clues regarding dates that will at least help you to narrow things down.  

 

1. The officer is wearing the stepped, open collar with shirt and tie introduced in 1913.

 

2.  The men are not wearing VTC uniform, but the standard drab service dress that was authorised for issue from 19 April 1916, when the VTC had its title changed to Volunteer Force (VF) to mark its formal adoption by the war office. This was a resurrection in a sense of the pre-1908 VF.

3.  The men are armed with the .303 Martini-Henry Rifle, which was the first approved firearm for widespread issue to the VF.

 

4.  It was only in October 1916 that the general service cap badge (royal coat-of-arms) worn by the men was approved, as a replacement for the old VTC insignia, as well as authorisation for standard army ranks and rank insignia, as seen on the officer’s cuffs and NCOs arms.

 

5.  Finally, it was in July 1918 that all VF units, except those in the County and City of London, were to become, and be designated, Volunteer Battalions (VB) of their local regular regiments.

 

The deduction then must be that the photo at the head of this thread annotated 2nd Volunteer Battalion KSLI was taken between July 1918 and the Armistice.  Indeed it might well have been taken at the time of the Armistice with the knowledge that the unit would soon be stood down.

 

NB:

 

a.  According to Westlake’s book on Victorian Rifle Volunteer Corps there was no corps associated with Bog raised in Shropshire.

 

b.  The badge for the Shropshire Volunteer Regiment of the VTC is described as a circlet inscribed with ‘Shropshire Volunteers’, surmounted with an imperial crown and in the centre a shield bearing three leopards heads, as per the Arms of Shrewsbury. Below the shield a scroll inscribed ‘Regiment’ and below that a further scroll inscribed ‘VTC’. I enclose a lapel pin and ‘shoulder title’ worn by the unit.  Interestingly they were one of a few VTC that also raised a cadet unit (for boys), whose similar cap badge I also enclose as a good guide to how the principal badge looked.

 

c.  I doubt that the platoon had a special duty guarding the mine.  Their battalion was for local defence of key points such as road and rail junctions, etc.  It's more I think that the mine was a ready and focused location for supplying relatively fit manpower sufficient to form a discrete sub-unit of men already known to each other and used to working as a team.

 

Shoulder title image courtesy of the Imperial War Museum.

 

Edited 23 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[M Shaw]

Thanks for the email and the illustrations of the badges. The  date of being designated a Volunteer Battalion has sharpened my dating up by a couple of months. I have written a short piece for Shropshire Caving and Mining Club, should the editor of their publication be interested in including any of the badges what would be the copyright/permission position?

Mike

[FROGSMILE]

16 hours ago, M Shaw said:

Thanks for the email and the illustrations of the badges. The  date of being designated a Volunteer Battalion has sharpened my dating up by a couple of months. I have written a short piece for Shropshire Caving and Mining Club, should the editor of their publication be interested in including any of the badges what would be the copyright/permission position?

Mike

I’m glad it was of interest and use to you.  I can’t comment on the copyright of the images other than to refer you to Mr google.  Good luck with your article.

 

NB.  Just a few of the men in the photo, perhaps most notably the NCOs either side of the lone officer, are wearing the cap badge of the King’s Shropshire Light Infantry, the rest still have the General Service badge.

Edited 23 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[M Shaw]

Thanks