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Help with regiment identification please!


EastUpperGooner
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This photograph is in my family photo album but as of yet I'm unsure which relative it is as the writing on the back is too faded to read, I have attached that too should anyone be able to work their magic and read it.

 

It starts "Reading The Daily Skelter News before starting works on the barracks &..."

 

The relatives I have researched so far with help of this amazing forum are:

 

Evan Richard Llewellyn 15642 - 10th Btn (1st Rhondda) Welsh Regiment
Thomas Phillip Llewellyn 3224 - Cardigan R.G.A
Francis (Frank) Edward Gorman 68340 - 265 Coy RDC
George William Gorman 127542 - Royal Fusiliers/53rd (YS) Rifle Brigade

 

 

Thanks again in advance

 

EUG

 

 

thumbnail_IMG_20201108_144902.jpg.3febf39769778daff2e46747e58a5661.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_20201209_173213.jpg

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Post WW1 cavalry going by the corporals arm badge and the collar badges etc.  Possibly 6th Dragoon Guards (Carabiniers) but I’ll check.

 

Afternote:  yes I think it is 6th DG.  See arm badge and cap and collar badges below.

 

BAFBC9FB-0A34-42B3-9FB0-A75F9E25DE72.jpeg

 

6 DG arm badge.jpg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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9 minutes ago, EastUpperGooner said:

Thanks, I did post on WW2 talk but they suggested it was WW1.


Early 1920s going by the uniform and insignia.

 

Sorry I meant post WW1. Finger trouble!

 

The Corporal is a saddler and harness maker.

 

4881B867-EFFD-4356-BD3A-10B9D3DBA7F9.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:


Early 1920s going by the uniform and insignia.

 

Sorry I meant post WW1. Finger trouble!

 

Perfect, that makes sense now. Sorry for the confusion.

 

That rules out Francis as he died as the war finished, I'll get digging on the rest. Cheers :)

 

 

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3 minutes ago, EastUpperGooner said:

 

Perfect, that makes sense now. Sorry for the confusion.

 

That rules out Francis as he died as the war finished, I'll get digging on the rest. Cheers :)

 

 

 

It could even be as late as the early 1930s going by the haircuts, white lanyards, caps and collar badges when considered together.  Things didn't change much until 1937.

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Thanks, I have a feeling I might struggle then. I don't remember seeing any military records during that time but I'll certainly have a look.

 

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13 minutes ago, EastUpperGooner said:

Thanks, I have a feeling I might struggle then. I don't remember seeing any military records during that time but I'll certainly have a look.

 


You have a span between 1924 and 1935 approximately (based on the photo’s features), so it’s quite wide.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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52 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

lanyards

Didn't they switch to left shoulder around 1921?

 

No.

Mid 1920s according to the experts:

 

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
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12 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Didn't they switch to left shoulder around 1921?

 

No.

Mid 1920s according to the experts:

 


The change of shoulder applied to the RA Dai, but not the other arms and regiments.  Is that what you’re referring to?

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3 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:


The change of shoulder applied to the RA Dai, but not the other arms and regiments.  Is that what you’re referring to?

I see, I thought it was a universal change throughout the whole army.

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5 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

I see, I thought it was a universal change throughout the whole army.


No Dai, I think if you look at the thread that you cross referenced it relates to RA.  If it doesn’t then I got my wires crossed when replying to it?

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An interesting point: in 1922, the 6th Dragoon Guards (Carabiniers) amalgamated with the 3rd Dragoon Guards (Prince of Wales's) to create the 3/6 Dragoon Guards (later the 3rd Carabiniers). The badge of the merged regiment was that of the 3rd (Prince of Wales's plumes) with the 6th's crossed carbines behind.

 

However, for a period after the amalgamation, two squadrons of the amalgamated regiment would continue to wear the dress and appointments of the 3rd, while the third squadron wore those of the 6th (this applied to all amalgamated cavalry regiments, I believe).

 

Therefore I suspect this could identify a specific squadron (C?) of the 3/6th DG, prior to the decision that the whole regiment would lose the 'old' badges and take the new. Not sure when that was, though. Probably mid-30's. I am pretty I have it somewhere (Anglesey's History?). I'll try looking later.

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26 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said:

An interesting point: in 1922, the 6th Dragoon Guards (Carabiniers) amalgamated with the 3rd Dragoon Guards (Prince of Wales's) to create the 3/6 Dragoon Guards (later the 3rd Carabiniers). The badge of the merged regiment was that of the 3rd (Prince of Wales's plumes) with the 6th's crossed carbines behind.

 

However, for a period after the amalgamation, two squadrons of the amalgamated regiment would continue to wear the dress and appointments of the 3rd, while the third squadron wore those of the 6th (this applied to all amalgamated cavalry regiments, I believe).

 

Therefore I suspect this could identify a specific squadron (C?) of the 3/6th DG, prior to the decision that the whole regiment would lose the 'old' badges and take the new. Not sure when that was, though. Probably mid-30's. I am pretty I have it somewhere (Anglesey's History?). I'll try looking later.

 

It would indeed be outstanding to narrow it down to the actual squadron, Steven.

 

3-6 DG.jpg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Some background to the amalgamation question. I have been looking through Brereton's The 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards, 1685-1980, and he, naturally, gives some detail to the amalgamation between the 4th (Royal Irish) Dragoon Guards and the 7th (Princess Royal's) Dragoon Guards.

 

Army Order 133 of April 1922 announced the amalgamations. At the time it was decided that the two regiments in each pair would retain a separate entity in case future 'exigencies of the service' necessitated them being split. As a result, the junior regiment was retained at Squadron strength; excess officers and men were transferred to other units, retired, or discharged. One Squadron of the new regiment would retain the identity of the junior partner. On ceremonial parades the Guidons or Standards of both regiments would parade at the head of the regiment, as would the kettle drums.

 

The 4th/7th received their new regimental badge (i.e. replacing the former badges) in 1930 on their return from India; it is possible that home-based regiments received theirs earlier. It was at  that point that the regiment became more homogenous: a War Office circular in June 1927 had set out that uniforms, dress and appointments would be united for the amalgamated regiments. This was obviously not followed in India but became operative on the return to UK.

 

Unfortunately, the hypothesis that the junior regiment provided the junior squadron is shot down by the 4th/7th, where the 7th DG Squadron (or 'Black Horse Squadron' as it was known from that regiment's nickname) was 'B' Squadron.

 

So, I suspect we can date the photo to a period before the latter part of 1927; the 3rd Carabiniers title was adopted in 1928. Squadron unknown. There is a history of the 3rd Carabiniers, I Serve, (the motto was Ich Dien) by a Colonel Oatts; it might help but sadly I don't have a copy.

 

 

 

 

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The 1928-29 timeline fits well with the overall appearance of the scene and the men within it I think.

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