Help in establishing conscripts time with Training Reserve battalion

[Top notch]

Hello,

Can anyone help me with my research into Private William Joseph Harrison, No.28651, 7th. Battalion Shropshire Light Infantry. Died of wounds 5/9/1918.

I am researching the above soldier. All I know about him is he was born in Stroud 1899? He was, I assume conscripted to the 8/11133 Training Reserves Battalion. (I had not come across T.R.Battalions prior to this.)

He joined the 7th. Batt. Shropshire Light Infantry, service No. 28651. He died at 3rd. Australian G.H., France and was buried at Abbeville Communal Cemetery Extension, aged 19.

 

What I would like to know is...........

Why was he, when conscripted, sent to a Training Reserves battalion and not, for instance, the Gloucestershire Regt., being from Stroud?

What age was he?

Where were 8/11133 Training Reserves battalion based?

How long his training would have lasted?

After training was he sent straight to 7th. Battalion Shropshire Light Infantry, in France and what date?

Where he might have served, in France and where was he, when he received his wound.

 

Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

[kenf48]

I assume you have read the relevant pages on the Long Long Trail

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/training-reserve/

and links from that page.

 

He was in all probability conscripted some three months after his eighteenth birthday.  This would give the Army a decent interval of time yo prepare him for active service overseas on his nineteenth birthday.

He would report locally and be kitted out/medically examined and after a couple of days posted on to the Training Reserve (bearing in mind young soldiers serving with County Regiment Training Battalions were posted into the TR on its formation).

 

8/11133 was the number allocated to him while serving in the TR (or to be entirely accurate it would read TR/8/11133. The '8' refers to the 8th Battalion T.R. which as shown in the link above was at Wool, whether or not they were there when he served we can't say.

 

His training would last until he was eligible for active service, in April 1918 following the German Offensive the Government approved sending men on active service provided they were aged eighteen and a half and had six months training in the UK. Basic training was twelve weeks but they might also learn specialist skills, for example as a Lewis Gunner.

 

When attaining age nineteen (provided it was not in the period above) he would be posted to a Regimental Depot, this would usually be in the same Army Command District.  Records will probably show the 3rd Battalion. He would be renumbered and after a couple of weeks posted overseas to an active service Battalion.  He would go via the Base Depot (IBD) in France and very often be reposted on arrival, sometimes to a completely different Regiment.

 

At present you can download the war diary for the 7th KSLI from the National Archives for free if you register.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352075

using the diary you will be able to track his movements.

 

The Service Record of 28650 Hedden has survived and can be viewed on Ancestry or FMP it shows transfer to 7th Bn KSLI on 13th July 1918 joining the Battalion in the field three days later.  The draft appears to be from a Training Battaslion of the Devonshire Regiment.  It appears the draft went to France together from the Devons and were posted and transferred to the KSLI at the IBD.

[FROGSMILE]

Poor sod didn’t even last 2-months from arrival in France.  The infantry attrition rate was consistently high during that last hundred day’s campaign.

[SteveE]

1 hour ago, kenf48 said:

8/11133 was the number allocated to him while serving in the TR.  The '8' refers to the 8th Battalion which as shown in the link above was at Wool.

 

<snip>

 

The Service Record of 28650 Hedden has survived and can be viewed on Ancestry or FMP it shows transfer to 7th Bn KSLI on 13th July 1918 joining the Battalion in the field three days later.  The draft appears to be from a Training Battaslion of the Devonshire Regiment

In this instance the '8' refers not to the 8th Battalion but to the Regimental District Record Office administering the Training Reserve unit, in this case referring to No.8 District and Exeter Record Office.

 

The Devonshire Regiment came under the jurisdiction of Exeter Record Office which would make sense with the numbering scheme but I think the Reserve Battalion was at Wareham and not Wool?

 

Steve

[kenf48]

4 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Poor sod didn’t even last 2-months from arrival in France.  The infantry attrition rate was consistently high during that last hundred day’s campaign.

 

Indeed, having taken the dogs out and had another look it seems his 'mate' 28652 Hinton aged 18, and served three months with the field force was wounded in the same action. Hinton was in "D" Company.  It could be argued though that it was this cohort of fit young men, now led by experienced officers and well trained carried the day for the Allies.

 

It was quite a large draft from the T.R. and they were posted to the 1st, 4th and 7th Bn. KSLI.  The 7th Bn numbers start at 28629 and run through to 28656, the war diary notes 38 reinforcements on the 14th July.

 

On the 1st and 2nd of September on 'active operations' the Battalion suffered over 250 casualties, officers and other ranks.  Unfortunately an account of this operation was in a separate report in the diary and this has not been copied (or has been removed). There is however a detailed report on the action in the Brigade War diary (3rd Division 8th Brigade WO95/1420/1).

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14052977

 

In a nutshell the Battalion was part of a major attack on the German Defences, or Hindenburg Support Line. Accompanied by three tanks they advanced rapidly, the leading platoon running into the Creeping Barrage that was supporting the attack.  The speed of the advance meant their flanks were exposed and enemy machine guns moved into the open and halted the advance, all three tanks were knocked out and the battalion was forced to retire.

(Which explains Pte Hinton's buttock wound, sorry couldn't resist.). Fighting continued for the next twenty four hours and unfortuantely the Brigade failed to achiev all the objectives in the Operation Order.

 

 

2 hours ago, SteveE said:

n this instance the '8' refers not to the 8th Battalion but to the Regimental District Record Office administering the Training Reserve unit, in this case referring to No.8 District and Exeter Record Office.

Thank you Steven.

 

Hedden's record (8/11928) shows enlistment at 18 years and 1 month in January 1918 and posted to the 53rd Young Soldier Battalion (Devonshire Regiment). They were at Rollestone Camp in Wiltshire.  On 25th May he was posted to the 52nd (Graduated )Battalion Devons at Cromer before being posted to the BEF (embarkation date is unclear but looks like the 8th July).

[FROGSMILE]

It’s a very interesting rundown of the sequence of events.  Of course the infantry had always had higher attrition rates than the other arms.  It was the nature of their business after all and one only has to examine the aim of the infantry as expressed by British doctrine to understand why.  However, in the earlier years of the war there were usually some periods of reprieve in between offensives.  The difference for the post August 1918 infantry was the sheer unrelenting and grinding nature of the fighting. I agree with your comment that it was those young men that carried the brunt, although I think that they were the instrument, and it was also the different battle space (and tactical circumstances) within which they were operating that made the difference.

Edited 1 December , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Top notch]

Thank you for the replies, which I have only just had the opportunity to read. Some very interesting information, which has enlightened me somewhat, but has left some blanks also!!

Kenf48, thank you for your reply. Yes, I did read the "Long Long Trail" article. I got confused, however, when I read that 8 denoted Woolwich Depot and couldn't reason why a lad from Stroud would be sent so far from home (in those days) when there must have been depots nearer to him? I was interested to read he would have been conscripted around 18years 3months (was that a hard and fast rule throughout UK?).

Thanks for the tip about the war diary. I was able to download it and will settle down to read that tonight.

I was slightly confused to the service record of  28650 Hebden you refer to, does that mean the Private Harrison's record did not survive and that Hebdon was sent to KOSLI at the same time as Harrison having been allocated his number alphabetically? two before Harrison, losing their training Battalion numbers? Although I guess there's no guarantee they were at the same Training Battalion (perhaps I can look into this more?)

Thanks, also, SteveE. It makes more sense the Training Depot be Wareham (87 miles from Stroud) rather than Woolwich (145 miles from Stroud)?

I think my next question, to fill in the "middle bit" is, we know now where he was sent to train and we know at which Regiment he ended up. My question is would he have been sent to France and in the same batch as Hebdon? Where would he have landed in France and would this have been the point at which he was given his new service number and attachment to KOSLI?

Ken, regarding your last post referencing Hebdon, again, I am confused. Do we assume Harrison was with Hebdon all through training together and would have followed the same path to France?

Also, my research shows Private Harrison died of wounds at 3rd. Australian G.H., is there any way of finding his route from the front, i.e. CCS, etc, to that hospital?

 

Thanks again everybody,

Eddie. 

[kenf48]

The service record of the man you are researching Pte 28651 Harrison has not survived.  We have other information concerning his service, for example the medal rolls confirm a large draft of men with '8/' prefix numbers were numbered consecutively to the KSLI as previously detailed not all these men went to the 7th Battalion but they were transferred in blocks and allocated sequential numbers.  From Soldiers Effects database on Ancestry we know his mother was paid a gratuity of £3, thanks to forum pal Craig we know this amount represents less than 12 months service when he died, so he was not called up until, at the very earliest, October 1917.

Soldiers Died in Great War gave us his TR8/ number so that tells us where he trained, and who with. (Thanks again Steve).  We also know he served with the 7th Battalion and their war diary will show us when they received reinforcement drafts. That is about all we can glean from the online records about Pte. Harrison.

 

We can however place his service and subsequent death within a general historical context.  We know that on attaining the age of eighteen he was liable under the terms of the first Military Service Act March 1916 to be called up for military service.  Harry Patch notes in his memoir, 'everyone in the village knew when the call would come'.  Eighteen and three months is a generalisation, it was not a rule but administratively probably no more than three months but could be less, e.g. Pte Hebden called up at eighteen and one month (leave aside the anomalies for now as they would probably confuse you further).

 

So, what can we learn from near service numbers.  It's difficult to track Home Service numbers without a record, Hebden joined the Training Reserve after Harrison 11133 >11928 so that doesn't really help us, however he was in the block transferred to the 7th KSLI on the date shown, in France, we can corroborate that with Pte Hinton's medical record which shows three months in France when wounded around the same time Pte Harrison succumbed to his wounds.  Army numbering is not random but sequential. We have 28650 Hebden's record (with the caveat there is a need to be careful when making comparisons from just one record) in this case we also have 28652 Hinton's medical record showing three months with the field force so they were both numbered July 1918.  It is beyond reasonable doubt 28651 Harrison joined the 7th Battalion at the same time.

 

As you knew his TR number I assumed you had access to at least one of the genealogy sites, therefore you can look for the records of other numbers in the sequence.

 

If you go to this earlier thread and scroll down forum pal JefR has posted a link to his pdf 'A Draft of 100' where he sets out in much more detail the steps he followed in researching a soldier

 

[Top notch]

Dear Kenf48,

Thank you for such a clear and concise reply. Indeed the picture is much clearer now. Yes, I do have access to Ancestry UK, but am still finding my way round it. 

I enjoy researching soldiers history ever since I researched my Grandfather's WW1 service. Unfortunately, I do not have the knowledge and "computer" skills possessed by people like yourself. I get stuck or follow a blind alley, result frustration?? I am slowly learning and I try to follow up the leads put forward by other members, like yourself, and I do appreciate the help given.

I shall certainly look at the "previous thread" you posted, that will be my reading for this evening!!

Thanks again, Eddie.

[kenf48]

You're welcome.

 

The Brigade war diary I referred you to is also on Ancestry This Page details the Operation Order for the attack on 1/2 September followed by the after action report

 

Wounded were evacuated by the 8th Field Ambulance to the CCS their diary is here on Ancestry they do not name the CCS  and record "no unusual features".  The Diary of ADMS 3rd Division may have more detailed information as to the evacuation chain.

 

Don't get frustrated, it's a marathon not a sprint

[Top notch]

Hello Ken,

Thanks for the reply.

I think I've always been a bit of a tortoise not a hare!!

Eddie.