Steve1871 Posted 10 September , 2021 Author Share Posted 10 September , 2021 Thank’s Julian, sounds really cool!!!😊. When people name states for units, Bavarian, Prussian, Saxon, they do not mention Hannover in same way because the state of Hannover was already taken over by Prussia right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 September , 2021 Share Posted 10 September , 2021 Yes, all thanks to Queen Victoria... Hannover (German spelling) came under the British crown until she became queen of Britain. As the ruler of Hannover had to be male, it went to one of her cousins, and then of course to Prussia. One of the pre-Victoria Hannoverian regiments even took part in the capture of Gibraltar, which is why it wore a Gibraltar cuff title, and there is a great Waterloo monument in Hannover itself celebrating their part in that battle. Having lived in Hannover for 1.5 years - I can assure you that the people of Hannover, and of Lower Saxony, still feel very independent and claim to speak the most perfect German! They also produce a very nice beer Herrenhäuser Brauerei...!!! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 10 September , 2021 Author Share Posted 10 September , 2021 Nice bit O’ information there, thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 10 September , 2021 Share Posted 10 September , 2021 (edited) I would think is a nice piece the blade and crossguard was probably cleaned and polished, i dont known what is the letter on spine, could be J or something else, its a very early S71 production, Gebr.Weyersberg is well known firm, most real many were made from them, anyway large numbers could be melted down post WW1. The scabbard was repaired probably when looking at different proof on ball and mouth fittings, is certainly good in touch, the mouth piece looks like arsenal repair well done. On pommel could be P letter. Edited 10 September , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 19 September , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 September , 2021 Bayonet #53 9/18/21 S.71 Maker Weyersberg & Stamm Solingen Spine Scrubbed of markings Unit 6.R.E.1.102. Bavarian 6th Regiment. Ersatz battalion.1st Company. waffe 102 Opposite side, Bavarian set of numbers, fairly common, but do not know if those are serial numbers or what. The Bavarians were only ones to use unit and some other markings ( upside down). The acceptance stamp on pommel of crowned C is also the same way. I did not notice before, but underside of blade are some markings, can not tell what they are, but is scarce to almost rare to see any markings there. Blade is exelent, guard very good, same with the brass pommel The scabbard, not matching is Prussian. 17.R ( script) .r.9.53. For 17th Reserve Regiment. 9th company . Waffe 53. Seam start to open a little, but stitching still looks to be all there, body itself is nice, just a small scuff in the finish. Both staples intact, chape and final a little mottled. Chape with a fairly crisp stamp, crowned S Nice to have a Bavarian Ersatz unit S.71 made by scarce maker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 19 September , 2021 Share Posted 19 September , 2021 (edited) Nice bayonet anyway is not typical to see the bavarian unit wout B inside of stamp, same as the spine is unfortunally filled out, so no bavarian proofs are visible, the position or direction could be from it bavarian, the serial number of rifle or inventory number is probably on right crossguard. I believe on the crossguard was proof filled out, and there is visible some crown inspector proof? on same picture. I assume its a normal 6. Inf.Regiment and Ersatz Battalion like corectly deciphered. The bayonet is certainly not early production as Bavaria accepted S71 much later as other german states as still large numbers of Werder 69 since that date 1870 in arm depots. Weyersberg & Stamm Solingen is well known maker of long blade like sabers and swords mainly. The scabbard from manual should be normally Rekruten Depot, but here is the second R smaller so most real its 17.Reserve Regiment, 9.company and weapon nr. even the combination of cursive R and normal R would be designated for a Rekruten Depot of Reserve Inf.Regt.17 but certainly no 9.company would be real in RRD. Edited 19 September , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 27 September , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 September , 2021 Bayonet #54. 9/26/21 S.71mS. Saw BacK Maker Weyersberg Kirschbaum & Ce Solingen Unit 36.R.2.8. 36th Infantry Regiment, 2nd Co. waffe 8 Could not find a spine photo for date, acceptance stamp. Show what I found Blade very nice, without patina. Teeth as unused. Light only wear of guard. Brass gone kind of dark with age. Scabbard, Unit 97.R.1.247. mismatched, but original Saw Back scabbard. Leather body beat up but had chape/ throat/final with both staples. Chape has 2 good size acceptance Stamps. From what I have seen, usually when double stamped, guessing 2 different inspections, will get two different crowned letter stamps. This one has the same letter for both. Crowned D. Half of frog stud he I’llked off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 27 September , 2021 Share Posted 27 September , 2021 Sawback pieces are allways interesting, i assume when WKC stamped so it must be production post 1883 as the firms are merged together since that date, so the production is late. The blade tip was reworked from shape i would say it was shortened a little, should be measured but when on road this would be immposible. The scabbard mouth speaks that someone give the sawback blade few times wrong way inside as cheaping of sawback from hole in mouth area. The scabbard looks like a new unit is Reserve Inft.Regt.nr.97, 1.company and w.nr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 3 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2021 This will be the last Standard S.71 for now, do not want to bore you gents with too many in a row, have a bunch more for later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 3 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2021 Bayonet #55. 10/2/21 S.71. Standard Unit. 40.L.R.13.151. 40th Landstrum Regiment? Think. Maker. P.D. Luneschloss. Solingen. Spine. Crown/W/73. Crown/M this piece has few extra markings, the front lower face of guard has a number stamped into it( never seen here) # 466, only ones with numbers I know of are are some Bavarian, with longer ( serial?) numbers on opposite side of guard from unit. Not short number up front.. Also has crown/J or I? Just above it............. In the front side face of guard, are letters, have on some other bayonets, AndyBsk I think thought may be makers stamp for the guard? But this piece has AW on one side and an S on the other??? also see an odd hole or Dot on bottom base of blade flat Scabbard is the RARE Steel Ersatz scabbard. No unit markings, I have never heard or seen any photos of one of these unit marked, but is proofed with Crown C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 3 October , 2021 Share Posted 3 October , 2021 (edited) Interesting piece certainly a early production piece, possible the unit is for Landwehr I.R.Nr.40, the pommel proofs are not present probably cleaned out, but from different letters on blade and crossguard i would think the crossguard could be replaced in time probably. AW could be maker of crossguard and S a technological stamp added by worker when repaired the piece? Or it was somewhere assembled in State Armory and P.D.Luneschloss was only blade producer. A steel scabbard is nice most real WW1 period, unfortunally not unit matching stamped. https://genwiki.genealogy.net/LIR_40 The unit was raised in august 1914. Edited 3 October , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 3 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2021 Andy, I know it just your guess, but I do not think AW would be stamped on cross guard would be a stamp for the Steel scabbard. If someone wanted to stamp letters for scabbard, it would be on it, not on the bayonet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 3 October , 2021 Share Posted 3 October , 2021 Steve this was my typo error, i meaned crossguard maker not scabbard, as on scabbard is no visible stamp appart of crowned inspector proof on mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 3 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 3 October , 2021 Hey Andy, have you seen numbers like that #466 stamped on lower face of guard. I never seen before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 3 October , 2021 Share Posted 3 October , 2021 (edited) I have seen bayonets like S98/05 serial numbered on end of crossguard on barell ring recess on various other places, as this is a WW1 period piece, this could be inventory number applied. Early pieces as S1871 are sometimes serialed on pommel and tang area of handle. Edited 3 October , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 4 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 4 October , 2021 Bavarian are only ones I have seen serial numbered, and always a 6 or 7 digit number, always on side of cross guard, opposite side from unit number. This #466 number, in this position still seems a mystery to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 4 October , 2021 Share Posted 4 October , 2021 This both are different numbers You spoke about bavarian serial numbers which are probably for rifle or bavarian inventory on right crossguard, similar was not done by Prussia or other german states, anyway when You look at Yours S84/98 from WW1 or other bayonets some of them are inventory stamped with 4 digits on blade and on scabbard. 3 digits means only a lower number nothing more. This piece has no link to Bavaria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 5 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2021 With unit right side up, I agree that not Bavaria , I was just saying those are only ones I know of. I have not seen these numbers in this place before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 5 October , 2021 Share Posted 5 October , 2021 I believe there is Carter or the Voronov reprint book some of S98/05 marked on similar place with inventory number. Same as maybe here in Demitrios or Your thread could be some similar serialed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 10 October , 2021 Author Share Posted 10 October , 2021 (edited) Bayonet #56. 10/10/21 S.69/98 Yatagan The Bavarians used a long Yatagan as well as a strait, saw backed pioneer bayonet for their M69 Werder “Blitz” or lightning rifle. After the full adoption of the M.71 Mauser by all German states, Bavaria found that simply by adding a slim bushing to the muzzle ring and make a “step” in rear of brass pommel, it would fit the M.71 as well. Only other adaptation was change from stud on scabbard. These were known as S.69/71. Later with the adoption of the Gew.88, the S.69/71 was used with the Gew88 without change, some individual bayonets would be a little loose due to the crowned muzzle face. These were also used by reserve and other rear / support troops in beginning of the Great War As we all know here on forum, Germany ( every country) was not prepared for all out war. Germany, their leadership deciding that ALL soldiers must be equipped with a gun and edged weapon, most with rifle and bayonet, some special troops, hand guns ect. So next we have the great scramble to supply Guns and bayonets. On Bayonets, a wide range of ERSATZ ( substitutes) were created. Also, the whole line of S.71 family were used, since they already were issued with Gew88 pre-war. Among the scramble, Bavaria found it still had some original S.69 Werder bayonets. With the Gew.98 being the new weapon for the war, someone was able to authorize the modification on both types of Werder S.69 new cross guard and pommel, grips to fit the Gew.98 to become S.69/98. I only have the Yatagan so far. Hope you like My example, the early High “ears” cross guard. The blade looks to have been cleaned some time in the past, not polished I think. The pommel and wood grips look original. Very little use. The pommel has 2 acceptance stamps . Wood grips are very nice The scabbard, all steel was used from some other bayonet, think Austrain. Have seen 2 others sold recently with this steel scabbard. Has original green Paint on top fits just right where a frog would have been, protecting the paint for so long. A Rare Bayonet. There is a photo/ cover of post card showing a soldier in trench with one of these mounted on his Gew.98. I can not find it right now. Anyone else know, feel free to add it Edited 10 October , 2021 by Steve1871 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 11 October , 2021 Share Posted 11 October , 2021 (edited) Nice bayonet, offcoarse similar bayonets are harder to became as they are rare compare with normall modells, i personally would add this to adapted bayonets not Ersatz by germans called S69/98 aptiert fuer Gew.98, personally believe it was done prior 1914. The overall condition of the bayonet is very nice to compare the rusted surface of scabbard, which is austrian Werndl 1873, normally old Werder leather scabbard were used, it looks like it goes not fully inside, which is caused by different curvature of Werder against Werndl probably. It could be mounted postwar to this configuration, Werndl bayonets could be used too by some Landsturm units as guarding duty. I dont see good what is on end of hook of scabbard ,where should be austrian eagle proof normally looks like rusted and painted?. I believe the proofs on pommel are typical Bavarian used , the grips screws are replacement as different inspector stamp on them, note the chiped wood around, it could be done already in war?. Maker of old blade is Weyersberg & Stamm Solingen. Edited 11 October , 2021 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 November , 2021 Share Posted 24 November , 2021 On 03/10/2021 at 08:05, Steve1871 said: Bayonet #55. 10/2/21 S.71. Standard Unit. 40.L.R.13.151. 40th Landstrum Regiment? Think. Maker. P.D. Luneschloss. Solingen. Spine. Crown/W/73. Crown/M this piece has few extra markings, the front lower face of guard has a number stamped into it( never seen here) # 466, only ones with numbers I know of are are some Bavarian, with longer ( serial?) numbers on opposite side of guard from unit. Not short number up front.. Also has crown/J or I? Just above it............. In the front side face of guard, are letters, have on some other bayonets, AndyBsk I think thought may be makers stamp for the guard? But this piece has AW on one side and an S on the other??? also see an odd hole or Dot on bottom base of blade flat Scabbard is the RARE Steel Ersatz scabbard. No unit markings, I have never heard or seen any photos of one of these unit marked, but is proofed with Crown C Hi Steve, That is an interesting piece! I had read somewhere somehingt about these steel scabbards for the S.71 but this is the first example I have seen. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 November , 2021 Share Posted 24 November , 2021 On 11/10/2021 at 02:15, Steve1871 said: Bayonet #56. 10/10/21 S.69/98 Yatagan Another nice rare one! One day I'll tell you my explanation for the 'high ears' on this and some other German pre-1915 bayonets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickster Posted 27 November , 2021 Share Posted 27 November , 2021 As pokey stabby things go, this has got to be the loveliest creation yet . Mickster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 5 December , 2021 Author Share Posted 5 December , 2021 Thanks Mickster, have been sick, will try to start the post up in a day or two, glad you like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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