Imperial German Bayonet’s from my Collection

[Steve1871]

Here on Great War Forum, the “Arms and other Weapons” section seems to have a lot of collectors. A lot of area to cover from Rifles, pistols to many other weapons, but on this forum/sub forum, the main topic to my view has been the Bayonets used in the Great War. And besides the P.07. And some Greek and French, but the most popular have been the German. Yes they are the largest variety by country, even without the Ersatz.

 

I am trying to do a better post in displaying my Bayonet collection ( the German side) with what photos I have, since I am very rarely home. I am trying to do in groups of 10 per type, just finishing for now , the S98 quill backs , the next group I want to show are the S.71HF.   Hirschfanger bayonets. 
Now many collectors for the Great War May not have been interested, thinking the Hirschfanger is simply too old/early for their collecting/time era of the Great War. Any of you can find a lot more info, but just a little history shows that the S.71 HF was a part of Great War history

 

The S.71 Hirschfanger, came about for the Jager troops/ In 1875/6. Having a steel pommel with birds beak and pressed black leather grips. The Imperial German Navy was also the biggest user of the S71 HF, 

The Prussian Army issued the M71Jager rifle with the S71 HF bayonet to its Jager battalions from the beginning to past the turn of the century, since there never was an actual Gew88 bayonet issued, re-arming from the Gew.88 to Gew98 in peace time took a long time. At beginning of the Great War, some Jager battalions, in rear areas were still armed with the S.71 HF

 

The Imperial Navy had used the S71 Hf from the beginning. In the 1908 weapons archives of the imperial Navy listed  24,279 S71 HF bayonets compared to 18,349 S98 quill backs in inventory

 

The S.71 HF was to replace all other major edged, boarding weapons, the Prussian Cutless, the 1911 boarding Cutless ( little smaller), the boarding axe. Some 1911 boarding Cutless as survived, being almost exclusively serving on the smaller torpedo boats

 

In 1913,the Naval Artillery units were still exclusively issued with the Mauser 71/84 with the S.71 HF bayonet. 
 

With the outbreak of war, the Prussian Army, seeing the Navy personal as not “Front Line” soldiers, stripped the Navy of almost all of the Gew.98 rifles to send to army units in France, only a small number of Gew98 rifles were kept by the navy in the beginning, these were stored on ships abroad. The Imperial Navy being use to the Mauser 71/84 with the S.71 HF simply took them back out of storage.the S.71 HF  Hirschfanger served the Imperial Navy in Naval Bases/ yards. Repair yards, on board ships for Naval , Marine landing party’s ,Marine Pioneer company’s. Naval Military police at bases as well as the German colonies ( not too many). And most likely, at the 2-3 German Coaling stations in the pacific for the German “ Raider” type ships . There are records and photos of rare Weimar marked/ used S.71HF, 

 

At one time, the Nave traded in some S.71 HF for the smaller 71/84 bayonet, but did not like it and returned to S.71 HF  At the end of the war, The Imperial Navy had a mix of Gew 98 rifles and their bayonets (84/98) as well as an old assortment of older rifles and the Hirschfanger,  weather as a side arm by 1918 or what, I am not sure

 

The Hirschfanger started with the M65 (1865) Jager rifle, different in many ways from the M65 Prussian rifle, being a little shorter and more of a “ hunting” style. For exclusive use by Jager troops. When the M71 rifle came out, they simply added a bushing, into the muzzle ring to fit the Mauser rifle. To become the S65/71, on this bayonet, they also milled down a flat on the right side, (so  when mounted to the M71 rifle to better see the lie front site). These early bayonets had only 3 rivets holding the leather grips. The New S.71 HF have no flat, and have 5 steel pins holding grips

 

In my observations, shows and on line, it seems that most S71 Hirschfanger bayonets available today, almost 150 years old usually are missing their scabbards.  Also a lot of photos over the years, these bayonets either have no markings on cross guard, or Naval marked or Jager marked. I have all three to show from my humble collection here

 

In closing ( for now). If you collect German bayonets from the Great War , over a century now, I hope you may at least take an interest to look up in a book or on line to see if you might like to add one to your collection one day. Hope I did not drone on too long here 

[Steve1871]

Bayonet # 11

  S71 Hirschfanger.  No scabbard, Naval marked J.M. 2638   With 83 (1883) date made by . Faint marking, I think Weyersberg Kirchbaum & c e. Assembled at Erfurt. 
mall the steel is in pretty good shape, the grips, original, are fairly well worn, except for the maker, most of the markings are pretty good as well, blade not sharpened, none of my S.71HF were ever sharpened

 

I have better pieces, but chose this one for the first to start with  a KM marked piece

[Steve1871]

Darn typo again/  K.M. Not JM, sorry

[bert.f]

Very rare bayonet, congratulation

[AndyBsk]

Very nice and scarce bayonet, i assume its first year of WKC stamp using. The piece could be fullended or reworked in Erfurt, quilback is strong builded here. KM inventory marking on crossguard.

PS Steve do You have picture of rifle slot of pommel from spine view of the last S98nAS? thanks.

[trajan]

You certainly do find them Steve! Outside of my normal interest range, evn though as you say used WW1, but great to see such a good example!

 

Julian

[Steve1871]

Bayonet # 12

 

S.71 HF Hirschfanger  Prussian Army, Jager issue. Sorry, no scabbard

15.J.1.214.    15th Jager Battalion. 1st Kompany weapon 214.  The grips are in a little better shape than the last one.  Maker is

Gerber ( Brothers) Simpson in Suhl. Blade not sharpened, and very good shape. G.S. On spine, common, but forgot off hand what that stood for.Photo was too Blu-ray, but the reverse side pommel has 2 Frakturs

 

the 65/71 had only 3 pins holding grips on. The standard S71 HF like this one has 5 

[AndyBsk]

Gebrueder Simson,Suhl, nice piece Jaeger Battalion stamped. 

[zuluwar2006]

On 30/12/2020 at 05:09, Steve1871 said:

Bayonet #9

 

S.98nA.            Several photo’s did not come out, using camera phone, could not see screen clearly, do not know if unit marked 

W.K. &  C.  Solingen. 
1906. Prussian

The main, interesting thing is that the ( non matching) scabbard is NAVAL marked, I think 

“The Prussian “. Or “ Trajan” posted a short list of naval codes/ markings before, but I could not find them. The blade is nice, the grips , semi dark have nice shape, screws have the Fraktur’s. Leather body in pretty good shape.  Still a nice piece for the collection. Hope you guys like

 

Steve,

Similar to your extremely rare unit marking.

This is AN aA PLAIN 98/05 BAYONET

DATE = 1912 [RARE DATE]

MANUFACTURER [ G. HAENEL AND SUHL

UNIT MARKING = W.D. 693

WERFT DANZIG

AN EXTREMELY RARE NAVAL MARKED BAYONET WITH A RARE DATE

 

 

 

[Steve1871]

Hey Demitrios, I will match you a W.D.  
Werft Danzig

[AndyBsk]

I.W.D. marking should be for  I.Werft Division Kiel, and not Werft Danzig, as is only WD marking.

[Steve1871]

Hey Andy

Do you have a list of German naval markings for me, if you could?

I have a few different ones. Thanks

[AndyBsk]

No i have similar list not, maybe its in Noll book, but i looked to genwiki, there is Kaiserliche Marine link. should be avialable when adding to inet search.

Edited 7 January , 2021 by AndyBsk

[zuluwar2006]

23 hours ago, Steve1871 said:

Hey Demitrios, I will match you a W.D.  
Werft Danzig

Doctor Steve,

Here we go again, with another similar unit marking!!! 😀 

[Steve1871]

Hey Demitrios, you never let on that you had a S.71 HF, I should not be surprised

[AndyBsk]

I believe the last piece is a I.Marine Division.

http://genwiki.genealogy.net/Kaiserliche_Marine_(bis_1918)#Marinestation_der_Ostsee_-_Kiel

Edited 8 January , 2021 by AndyBsk

[Steve1871]

Bayonet # 13

 

S.65/71 HF. Hirschfanger.  C.J. 4.46
I know “J” is for Jaeger, I do not know what “C” stands for? Any help would be great, thanks 

1868.            This is a conversation from S.65 to 65/71 to fit the M71 Mauser rifle by simply adding a bushing into the muzzle ring, reducing it to 17.4 mm.  Also, on the right side  of the muzzle ring, a flat spot was milled out to better see the lower front sight of the Mauser rifle. The quickest was to see the difference in the  S65.   S65/71. From the standard S71 HF. The originals only have 3 pins holding the grips where the new S71 Hf have 5 pins

On muzzle ring, you can clearly see the bushing
 

On Cross guard,  under the date is a large “S” with small crown over it. Would this stand for Saxon, anybody?

 

The scabbard body is very nice, all stitching intact, only thing is the staple in back(intact) is a little loose, leaving the chape: top steel piece a little loose. Enjoy

[Steve1871]

Being from some type of Jaeger unit, a bushed 66/71 fit’s both the M72 mauser and the Gew 88 that reserve and rear troops used  in the beginning of the war, along with all those Edsatz bayonets and even foreign rifles/ bayonets

[Steve1871]

Being from some type of Jaeger unit, a bushed 66/71 fit’s both the M71mauser and the Gew 88 that reserve and rear troops used  in the beginning of the war, along with all those Edsatz bayonets and even foreign rifles/ bayonets

[AndyBsk]

The Crown S is a inspector letter of the piece HF65, note similar on crossguard, blade and pommel, i  believe the gothic L under on crossguard could be for refurbishment for HF65/71 by reworking to Gew71 standarts, i assume mostly used with Gew71, on some G88 should be partly removed from backside, or filing on locking nut,as there were small tolerances, and there should be longer locking distance on Gew88 in 1mm probably. I dont see any good pictures of the unit, it could be weakly stamped letter G for Garde Jaeger Battalion, should be looked what was already in 1868 in Jaeger units, i dont see any saxon links.

[Steve1871]

Yes, looks weekly stamped and worn with age

[Steve1871]

Sorry, no realize I forgot pics of unit on guard could be C.J. 4. 46.  Or.    4.6 ?. Light stamping and wear

[AndyBsk]

There is hard to say is C or damaged G with missing middle part??, maybe there is a "C."Jaeger unit,(even a damaged 6.) anyway there are some other characters between C and J, upper area SN? or upside down N5 or something else, should be looked to Ruediger that 1868 is correct for arriving in Garde Jaeger Battalion. I see there 4.Company and weapon nr.76 or 16 probably. character behind C doesnt looks like dot, but remains from other letter? 

Edited 10 January , 2021 by AndyBsk

[zuluwar2006]

1 hour ago, Steve1871 said:

Sorry, no realize I forgot pics of unit on guard could be C.J. 4. 46.  Or.    4.6 ?. Light stamping and wear

My contribution on this rare unit marking. 

Regards

D. 

[Steve1871]

Thank’s D’, good reference there. I am sure this is a “C”. But do not know what kind of unit C.J. Would be.  
 

It looks like a possible “ N” mostly scrubbed out to top left of the “J” and a small circle, top of an 8?. The faint N? Looks crooked,