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New member and pictures - bayonets & helmet questions


Steve2000
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Hi All,

 

Just joined the forum, I am not a collector but have inherited quite a few items and thought I'd post a few pictures of some of my favourite, some of the items have been hanging on the wall for months but recently I have been trying to work out where they have all come from.

 

The bayonets, one I assume is British unless these were used elsewhere? The other one I had a quick look online at the name engraved in it and assume it is German?

 

Helmets I have no idea, I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction please?

 

And obviously my favourite item is the m1911, I posted a picture on another thread a few days back but its a Government Model sold to the Canadian Government in 1914 then hidden away for a number of years, probably since WW2!

 

Thanks all

 

Steve

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M1911 pic2.jpg

M1911.png

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No.4mkII is the first bayonet,second is german S84/98nA with a strange frog,the second helmet is DDR M44.

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The first bayonet is a WW2 British (Canadian and several other commonwealth countries) No 4 Mk II for the No 4 SMLE .303 series of rifles.

The second bayonet is a WW1 German s.84/98 n/A (new model) bayonet, the leather frog on the scabbard does not appear to be original otherwise it is the incorrect scabbard. THis is most likely a late war bayonet, although this model was manufactured and on limited issue prior to the war, it was on large scale issue late in the war and the same model continued as the main German bayonet through WW2. There is likely to be a two digit year of manufacture stamp on the spine of the blade just in front of the cross guard.

First/third helmet appears to be a British WW2 tank crew helmet from late in WW2

Second helmet is a post WW2 East German army helmet, from before the re-unification of Germany in 1990.

 

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22 minutes ago, Chasemuseum said:

The first bayonet is a WW2 British (Canadian and several other commonwealth countries) No 4 Mk II for the No 4 SMLE .303 series of rifles.

In the frog associated with the 1925 pattern Mills RAF equipment. The frog is rare (and significantly more valuable) than the bayonet.

 

Tom K

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The British helmet is a MK2 HSRAC (Helmet, Steel, Royal Armoured Corps) and was probably manufactured after WWII. The East German helmet is an M1956 - a late production example with a partially plastic liner and no external rivets.

 

I had just noticed the possible P1925 frog, but Tom K beat me to it:

 

http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1925/pics/khaki/equipment_carriers/html/1925_khaki_frog_front.html

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Off-topic, apologies, but curious - wasn't the DDR M1956 based on prototypes for the Wehrmacht designed in about 1944?

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The S84/98nA has sloted screws which is not correct normally, the scabbard should be photographed from other side, how is attached the frog on it, there should be typical hook on.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Hi all,

 

Thank you very much for all your replies so far, some very interesting details and more information already then I had learned with several hours on google!

I have attached a couple more pics of the back, going to have a proper look later when I finish working.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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The AM stamp on the frog is for Air Ministry and is consistent with a P1925 frog. As mentioned, it is more rare and valuable than the bayonet it is attached to. Unfortunately the slot cut in it for the scabbard stud devalues it slightly.

 

If you hadn't already guessed, the W 17 marking on the spine of the bayonet blade is for Kaiser Wilhelm, 1917.

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On british should be model and maker stamped on side of socket,

german bayonet and scabbard are correct, the frog was probably damaged, and remained only the backside flap, with lower pouch for attaching scabbard hook is already missing, normall S84/98nA from 1917, looks like sharpened a little.

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Sorry, been a very busy week.

 

I appreciate all your replies, and no I hadn't guessed what the W 17 was for so thats very interesting! I have found a few more items this week which were interesting to me. For enthusiast or collectors I guess they are all quite common items, but Ive enjoyed looking up everything especially as they all belonged to my grandfather. There were lots of pictures of him from the 40s as well which was great to look at.

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On 26/11/2020 at 00:31, trajan said:

Off-topic, apologies, but curious - wasn't the DDR M1956 based on prototypes for the Wehrmacht designed in about 1944?

It was rejected for use because it looked too much like the British MkIII.

 

 

Off topic but the pouch on the left of the back pack is also a valuable piece (it's the P37 Sten Mag pouch, with the pocket for the loading tool on the front - again looks to be in Air Force Blue).

T.K.

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18 minutes ago, Tom K said:

It was rejected for use because it looked too much like the British MkIII.

 

 

Off topic but the pouch on the left of the back pack is also a valuable piece (it's the P37 Sten Mag pouch, with the pocket for the loading tool on the front - again looks to be in Air Force Blue).

T.K.

 Thanks Tom, thats very useful! Would make sense to be in the Airforce Blue as my grandad was in the RAF. This was also with it but didn't know that was the mag pouch!

 

I know this is a bit off topic for the weapons section of the forum so may post in the right part of forum as I find more stuff.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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9 hours ago, Tom K said:

Off topic but the pouch on the left of the back pack is also a valuable piece (it's the P37 Sten Mag pouch, with the pocket for the loading tool on the front - again looks to be in Air Force Blue).

The RAF Sten SMG magazine pouches aren’t technically a component of the 1937 Pattern set, but they were made to be used with blue-grey RAF 1937 Pattern webbing.

 

They were issued in pairs: one with the sub-pouch for the MK2 Lanchester/Sten magazine loading tool and one without. (As was the case with the Lanchester SMG magazine pouches) As mentioned, a relatively scarce item of RAF webbing.

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On 25/11/2020 at 14:11, Steve2000 said:

Hi All,

 

Just joined the forum, I am not a collector but have inherited quite a few items and thought I'd post a few pictures of some of my favourite, some of the items have been hanging on the wall for months but recently I have been trying to work out where they have all come from.

 

The bayonets, one I assume is British unless these were used elsewhere? The other one I had a quick look online at the name engraved in it and assume it is German?

 

Helmets I have no idea, I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction please?

 

And obviously my favourite item is the m1911, I posted a picture on another thread a few days back but its a Government Model sold to the Canadian Government in 1914 then hidden away for a number of years, probably since WW2!

 

Thanks all

 

Steve

Image 1.jpg

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M1911 pic2.jpg

M1911.png

pistol appears to be a Model 1911 Colt  .45 caliber  the engraving on slide is after market (DOUGLAS) was that the name of your grandfather?

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3 hours ago, robins2 said:

pistol appears to be a Model 1911 Colt  .45 caliber  the engraving on slide is after market (DOUGLAS) was that the name of your grandfather?

Hi,

 

Nope, there was no one in my family with that name so must have been the originally owner in Canada. Best guess it would have been an officer in the Canadian Expeditionary Force, my family came to own it at some point after, either during WW2 or earlier.

 

cheers

 

Steve

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12 hours ago, Steve2000 said:

Hi,

 

Nope, there was no one in my family with that name so must have been the originally owner in Canada. Best guess it would have been an officer in the Canadian Expeditionary Force, my family came to own it at some point after, either during WW2 or earlier.

 

cheers

 

Steve

ProofHouse.com     try this site, you may be able to trace the serial # of the pistol

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22 hours ago, robins2 said:

ProofHouse.com     try this site, you may be able to trace the serial # of the pistol

 

Thanks Robins2, I have taken a look, it confirms the year is 1914 but nothing beyond that unfortunately :(

 

Appreciate the help!

 

Steve

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