Service number

[MAXELLENDE]

Hi.

I have this sticker: "137905   L-PL  CH"

I think it's a soldier killed near Cambrai.

Can you help me to find the identity?

[Jim Strawbridge]

Using the Medal Information Cards search facility there are only four names popping up.

 

137905  Cpl.  Alfred Fowler,  Royal Garrison Artillery

137905  Pte.  Donald E. Wallis,  Machine Gun Corps

137905  Gnr.  Alfred Bailey,  Royal Field Artillery

137905  Spr.  Percy Booker,  Royal Engineers

 

Are you sure that there is an "1" at the start of the number as it is not clear in the photograph ?

 

Using the service number 37905 there are 34 possibilities only one of whom was a lance-corporal (James Shee, Durham Light Infantry) but , of course, there may have been others with "private" on the medal but had been lance-corporals later.

[MAXELLENDE]

Thank you so much for your help.
Yes, there is the number one, that’s for sure.

But what does L-PL CH mean?

 

The sticker was found in Caudry so it is necessary
  watch the soldiers buried in nearby cemeteries.

[Cheshire22]

Please provide photographs of the L/cpl C H

[Matlock1418]

35 minutes ago, Jim Strawbridge said:

Are you sure that there is an "1" at the start of the number as it is not clear in the photograph ?

I couldn't see the "1" either = "37905" to me

As suggested - other photos might help us please.

21 minutes ago, MAXELLENDE said:

The sticker was found in Caudry so it is necessary

Meanwhile: There is a Pte. F. Anderson 37905 KOYLI at AMERVAL COMMUNAL CEMETERY EXTENSION, SOLESMES - which doesn't seem too far from Caudry

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/336054/F ANDERSON

[Edit:  Frank Anderson - He was formerly 16/1604, Northumberland Fusiliers - see MIC]

A Pte could easily be appointed/initially recorded as LCpl but commemorated as Pte. = ???

:-/ M

Edited 16 November , 2020 by Matlock1418
Edit

[sadbrewer]

CWGC are only showing a naval casualty with the 137905 service number ...commemorated on the Portsmouth Memorial.

[MAXELLENDE]

[Matlock1418]

Maxellende - thanks for the helpful photos

What width & length is it? [Perhaps someone else can compare with GRU aluminium tag tape??]

Don't know what it is though!

Could it be off equipment / boxes instead???

:-) M

Edited 16 November , 2020 by Matlock1418
added length request

[sadbrewer]

52 minutes ago, Jim Strawbridge said:

Using the Medal Information Cards search facility there are only four names popping up.

 

137905  Cpl.  Alfred Fowler,  Royal Garrison Artillery

137905  Pte.  Donald E. Wallis,  Machine Gun Corps

137905  Gnr.  Alfred Bailey,  Royal Field Artillery

137905  Spr.  Percy Booker,  Royal Engineers

 

Are you sure that there is an "1" at the start of the number as it is not clear in the photograph ?

 

Using the service number 37905 there are 34 possibilities only one of whom was a lance-corporal (James Shee, Durham Light Infantry) but , of course, there may have been others with "private" on the medal but had been lance-corporals later.

Just to add to the 137905 list....Findmypast records are also showing

George W Pantony, RAMC

Hector M Coen, RAF

[jay dubaya]

I don’t believe this is from a grave marker, the width appears too large and the ends are different, the tape used by GRUs was just plain rounded on the ends without pre holes for fixing. 
It has more the appearance from some form of equipment or machinery Any known WW2 plane crashes in the area?
 

[Matlock1418]

9 minutes ago, jay dubaya said:

I don’t believe this is from a grave marker, the width appears too large and the ends are different, the tape used by GRUs was just plain rounded on the ends without pre holes for fixing. 

 

9 minutes ago, jay dubaya said:

It has more the appearance from some form of equipment or machinery

Suspicions I share - it looks too thick a gauge of aluminium for GRU too - in my opinion

:-) M

 

Edit: That said, Maxellende has recently posted a tape apparently for a Lt Saunders which had the same ends.

Edited 16 November , 2020 by Matlock1418
Edit.

[MAXELLENDE]

[Matlock1418]

Maxellende

We crossed when I was editing above to recognise Lt Saunders! :-/

- you make your point well about differing GRU ends! [and width of tape!]

So back to 137905 and who/what it might belong to.

:-) M

Edited 16 November , 2020 by Matlock1418
added comment on width

[jay dubaya]

Thanks for posting that Maxellende, I’ve never seen one with such ends, clearly they existed, but one might expect these not to be made ad hoc and were pre made with general information.

[MAXELLENDE]

Yes I think there were several models of machine making these stickers.

[MAXELLENDE]

In any case these stickers were made in the field because I found these fragments.

[jay dubaya]

Well, I take it all back Maxellende, there’s no doubt about it. My only suggestion now seems to be that it was made by mistake hence it being folded like it is. Thanks for enlightening me in GRU aluminium tape variations

[Matlock1418]

44 minutes ago, MAXELLENDE said:

Yes I think there were several models of machine making these stickers.

I think some similar aluminium tape stamping machines were available for public use at railways stations, and the like, in the 1960s [and beyond??] - certainly NOT suggesting your find(s) were made later from such a source!

36 minutes ago, MAXELLENDE said:

In any case these stickers were made in the field because I found these fragments.

Very interesting to see the cropped fragments turning up too.

Could your finds have come from a field workshop and/or the 137905 tape in the OP perhaps be a reject and never been used in 'anger' as it was wrong???

:-) M

 

Edit: The more I think about it - at the moment a workshop seems distinct possibility to me - the manufacturer possibly/probably realised he had got things [Number? LCpl?? letters???] wrong and when he realised it he just stopped/cropped/discarded and started again. Anyway -  Just a thought.  Not overly helpful as a whole but might perhaps be part of the investigation to consider.  Are you able to give us any more on the provenance of the tape(s) you have found?  Location? Separated? Together?

Further edit: The only other possibility that currently springs to my mind - Was it a place where the original wooden grave marker crosses were burnt when the headstones were erected? - If so I might have expected to show burn marks/damage - but who know?  Provenance may assist. ???

Further further edit: The crumpled state of the tape brings me back again to the idea of a discarded incorrect reject - which is really going to complicate things! 

 

Edited 16 November , 2020 by Matlock1418
edit & further edit & further further edit

[Jrmh]

Perhaps a medical tag to do with Pulmonary Langerhans cell histiocytosis (PLCH)?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langerhans_cell_histiocytosis

Edited 16 November , 2020 by Jrmh

[Cheshire22]

2 hours ago, MAXELLENDE said:

Thank you so much for your help.
Yes, there is the number one, that’s for sure.

But what does L-PL CH mean?

 

The sticker was found in Caudry so it is necessary
  watch the soldiers buried in nearby cemeteries.

So, where was it found exactly 

[MAXELLENDE]

The fragments were found together in a field in Caudry far from the British Military Cemetery.

[MAXELLENDE]

Here are some weird fragments.

 

"TTTTTTT" and "UUUUUUU"

[MAXELLENDE]

[Matlock1418]

2 minutes ago, MAXELLENDE said:

The fragments were found together in a field in Caudry

OK, but together.

Thanks for the extra photos - those other short tapes certainly look like trial pieces to me.

I think my idea that 137905 may have been a reject at a point of manufacturing is a distinct possibility - well it's the best I can do

:-) M

 

[MAXELLENDE]

Thanks Matlock. Yes it is a possibility. I will continue the research anyway.