53952 Pte Albert Edwin Heavisides Notts & Derby Regt then 123951 Labour Corps

[Chris Best]

My brother-in-law’s Great Uncle died in the West End Hospital for Nervous Disorders in October 1918, cod was lobal pneumonia, toxaemia, neurasthenia contracted while on active service.

 

Albert’s Service Record doesn’t appear to be around.  The  Medal MIC and Labour Corps Medal Roll show award of BWM and VM.  I lost my copy of SDGW in a flood but the transcript on Ancestry shows him as having enlisted at Barrow-in-Furness (not his home town and no date given) but comments that he was previously 53952 Notts & Derby Regt.

Is anyone able to (a) identify which Bn of the Notts & Derby Regt Albert served with and (b) bracket his probable enlistment date?

 

Finally, Albert died in hospital in London and is buried in Stockton-on-Tees.  Would the ‘system’ have covered cost of transporting his remains and his interment?

 

Many thanks

 

Chris

[Mark1959]

His War Gratuity was £13 10s (Soldier's Effects Record). As a private this, I believe, indicates his service commenced about 33 months before his death so about Dec-1915 / Jan 1916. The forum expert on gratuities will hopefully be along to confirm

[Chris Best]

39 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

His War Gratuity was £13 10s (Soldier's Effects Record). As a private this, I believe, indicates his service commenced about 33 months before his death so about Dec-1915 / Jan 1916. The forum expert on gratuities will hopefully be along to confirm

Thank you so much for this.  I’ve now picked up that screen shot from Ancestry and I’d wondered how the level of that gratuity was determined.  I hadn’t realized there might be a length-of-service increment in it.  I’m all the more hopeful now that someone will be able to confirm this by bracketing his Notts & Derby intake and,more importantly, his Bn if possible.

 

I note too that his Widow’s pension was 18/9d (£0.95p) per week.  I’ve not yet discovered, through Ancestry, any children linked to Albert.  Nor have I found subsequent records of his widow.

 

Thanks, again, and hopefully Forum gratuities expert might link in.  Meanwhile, I’ll see if I can find relevant information elsewhere through the Forum or the LLT.

 

Ceers

 

Chris

[Mark1959]

Gratuity depended a little on rank. For a private it was £3 for 12 months or less plus 10s for each additional month. So in this case we can deduce as £10 10s above £3 was paid that he served 21 extra months above the 12. So 33 months. Worked back from the date of death gives you the answer to the nearest month. 
There were 2 types of gratuity and so the GWF guru needs to confirm.

Edited 15 November , 2020 by Mark1959

[ss002d6252]

Albert's War Gratuity was a Type 2 at £13 10s (so paid gross, rather than a a net Type 1).

Popping the details in my war gratuity calculator tells us

https://www.wargratuity.uk/war-gratuity-calculator/

 

Quote

Gratuity depended a little on rank. For a private it was £3 for 12 months or less plus 10s for each additional month. So in this case we can deduce as £10 10s above £3 was paid that he served 21 extra months above the 12. So 33 months.

As it was a Type 2 the minimum was paid at the full £5 rate (for a private) - if it was paid as a Type 1 you'd need to add the service gratuity back on to the figure to get the gross amount from which to calculate the service.

 

In this case the amount is £13 10s less £5 for 12 months, so the remaining £8 10s gives us 17 additional months - 29 months in total.

 

Craig

[Mark1959]

I stand corrected. Thanks Craig

[Matlock1418]

10 hours ago, Chris Best said:

Albert died in hospital in London and is buried in Stockton-on-Tees.  Would the ‘system’ have covered cost of transporting his remains and his interment?

 https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/354955/ALBERT EDWIN HEAVISIDES - And he has a I/CWGC headstone

[Edit: as HEAVISIDES with a second "S" - MIC also has this spelling and GRO too

Name:                                          Mother's Maiden Surname: 
HEAVISIDES, ALBERT  EDWIN      WESTBY                               GRO Reference: 1890  D Quarter in STOCKTON  Volume 10A  Page 67]

Yes quite probably, if he wasn't discharged - in the UK it was commonly [probably normally] the case that the body was 'repatriated' at public expense for burial

[Aside - not that repatriation normally/commonly/officially occurred from overseas theatres of war for most - a few occurred early in the war and there's one big later/1920 exception in Westminster Abbey!].

Sometimes a military funeral was provided too - just sort of depends on his, military and local circumstances - might be worth looking in local newspapers to see if there was a report of his funeral.

:-) M

Edited 15 November , 2020 by Matlock1418
note on spelling of surname

[Matlock1418]

On 15/11/2020 at 09:58, Chris Best said:

I note too that his Widow’s pension was 18/9d (£0.95p) per week.

From the main Labour Corps Pension Card [Note: as HEAVISIDE - without a second "S" - seemingly an erroneous spelling (see post above)]

- Don't forget his widow got the £5 Death gratuity/grant [for expenses incurred after death] and the 50F payment too. Correction: I've since learnt more - apparently the "50F"on the card was a form and the date must relate to its administration.

I note the PC show his unit at "Labour Corps Clearing Office, Nottm. [Nottingham - quite close to where his widow, Dorothy Alice, was living when she made her claim] - so his LC service might have been relatively short with them [potentially as a preparation for discharge if he was already pretty unfit as was described on the PC/by you ??]

That said, I note his MIC is LC, enter ToW sometime after 31.12.1915 as only a 'pair' - a possible 1915 enlistment would seem to match with his war gratuity - so seems likely Notts & Derby were an earlier regiment [53952 doesn't look like a pre-war or TF number to me] - Possibly into N&D in 1915 [Barrow does seem a strange town - but I guess you were then posted where you were told! [or had he already family in Nottinghamshire??] - then potentially medically-downgraded into LC ??

As was commonly the case for LC soldiers his headstone was badged N&D reflecting the frequent preference for an earlier/'more prestigious' unit - so I can see your interest.

Makes you wonder why he was buried in Stockton if his widow was in Nottingham - I note however she was C/O Miss Grain, possibly a sister/relative ??

I note he is on a Stockton War Memorial - so I guess that possibly suggests more likely his original home area [not overly difficult to get to Barrow to enlist] - or at least perhaps he had family/relatives in Stockton who wanted him near and commemorated locally, regardless of his widow's address [which might easily have only been temporary in Nottingham - that said, no other change on the PCs to suggest that she was in Stockton at any time] ???

Edit: SDGW does give Stockton as his place of birth I now note - so that mystery seems largely solved! But not why at first glance seemingly not near his wife??

Sorry though, that doesn't help with his N&D Bn. - but as suggested above you might find something in the newspapers that can shed light on it.

:-/ M

Edited 26 January , 2021 by Matlock1418
expand/edit & note on spelling of surname on PC. Plus later correction

[Chris Best]

6 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

 

 

6 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

.

 

6 hours ago, Mark1959 said:

Gratuity depended a little on rank. For a private it was £3 for 12 months or less plus 10s for each additional month. So in this case we can deduce as £10 10s above £3 was paid that he served 21 extra months above the 12. So 33 months. Worked back from the date of death gives you the answer to the nearest month. 
There were 2 types of gratuity and so the GWF guru needs to confirm.

That is clear, thank you, Mark1959

Edited 15 November , 2020 by Chris Best
Deleting repeats of same comment.

[Chris Best]

15 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

Albert's War Gratuity was a Type 2 at £13 10s (so paid gross, rather than a a net Type 1).

Popping the details in my war gratuity calculator tells us

https://www.wargratuity.uk/war-gratuity-calculator/

 

As it was a Type 2 the minimum was paid at the full £5 rate (for a private) - if it was paid as a Type 1 you'd need to add the service gratuity back on to the figure to get the gross amount from which to calculate the service.

 

In this case the amount is £13 10s less £5 for 12 months, so the remaining £8 10s gives us 17 additional months - 29 months in total.

 

Craig

Excellent, thank you very much, Craig (and I've now signed onto the War Gratuity Calculator site.

[Chris Best]

15 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

might be worth looking in local newspapers to see if there was a report of his funeral.

Thank you, Matlock1418.  I've been able to get a copy of his CWGC grave via FindaGrave.  Interested to note that Albert's parents' names and DoDs are carved on the stone in lieu of an epitaph.

[Chris Best]

14 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

Makes you wonder why he was buried in Stockton if his widow was in Nottingham

Albert was a Stockton-on-Tees lad.  I've yet to find any subsequent entry related to his widow (re-marriage, births or death).  Roll on 1921 Census.  

[Mark1959]

A Dorothy A Heavisides married a James W Ross. Registered in Nottingham in 2Q 1922

see here

A Dorothy Alice Ross died 1Q 1923 in Nottingham and was buried on 7/2/23 in Nottingham. Age on death on registration is 31.  See here. The WFA pension card gives AEH's widow's Dob as 17/2/92 so if this is she then she died aged 30

Looks like a sad end to a sad story

Edited 17 November , 2020 by Mark1959

[Chris Best]

Oh, that seems sad.  I wonder if Albert attended recruit training at a ‘Depot’ in Nottingham in order for him to have met and courted Dorothy A.  If so, a couple of the [New Army] bns of Sherwood Foresters might have been his pre-wounding units.  Albert’s listed on the Sherwood Foresters RoH but, regrettably, his is one of the few not linked to a specified Bn.  I need to find a few more with Regtl numbers proximate to his and compare possible Bn affiliations.

 

cheers again for your help, Mark1959

Chris Best

[Mark1959]

Note his unit in the Labour Corp referred to by Matlock - may have just been posted to work in Nottingham.

[Chris Best]

Perhaps on compassionate grounds as his wife was from Nottingham?  I doubt there was that ‘level’ of man management in those days though.  I still hope a Notts & Derby expert might be able to bracket enlistment date and Bn.

[Matlock1418]

8 hours ago, Chris Best said:

Perhaps on compassionate grounds as his wife was from Nottingham?

Or ... As his state of health was apparently dodgy perhaps she was making a compassionate visit and stayed on with someone she knew = Perhaps! = Or ... = ???

Sorry - not solving your enlistment date, but will bump you up the list again.

:-) M

[Chris Best]

Thanks, Matlock.  I have found Albert on the Sherwood Foresters' Roll of Honour, but without link to a bn.  Now trying to bracket numbers +/- 1000 around his regtl number to see if I can identify the bn most likely to have been his.

[RaySearching]

 

 

There is a Nottingham connection

Looking at the 1911 census Albert aged 23  can be found residing with his parents and siblings at 25 Peel Street Thornaby on Tees

his occupation given as salesman, hardware, sundries, Markets  

which indicates that Albert was a market trader and will have attended markets around the country selling his wares

 

Boarding with the family is one William Wright aged 25 born NOTTINGHAM  also a market salesman (drapers)

 

 

On 17/11/2020 at 00:16, Chris Best said:

 I wonder if Albert attended recruit training at a ‘Depot’ in Nottingham in order for him to have met and courted Dorothy A.

 

Unlikely as Albert and Dorothy married in the March Qtr of 1913  (well before the outbreak of the war

 

Ray

[Chris Best]

Thank you, Ray - I can see how there could be a link to Nottingham  and Dorothy pre-WWI via fellow market trader in exile from Nottingham, William Wright (WW).  I'm not so sure about Albert hauling his goods to Nottingham market though.  I'll follow up to see if a closer geographical or familial link can be made between Dorothy and WW. 

 

Cheers

 

Chris