Ypres April 1915 trench maps

[NR72]

Hi all

 

I am after a trench map from early April up until 30th April 

 

Trying to ascertain my Grandads movements with the 8th Middlesex before him getting wounded on 27th ( thats when he reported it anyway) I think he was in area of Boetleers farm  referenced D 8 d  on Ypres Map and other references include trenches 25 26

 

This is what I know 

 

21/04 in huts "Square B 5 d

 

24/04   in position north of Verorenhock from trenches 23,24,25 with E Surreys

 

Digging party with 3rd Royal Fusilers 

Ammunition party - Suffolk 

 

25/04 attack on trench 25 with E Surreys 

 

Thank you , just trying to work out on Google maps where he was 

 

 

[jay dubaya]

Maps from 28th Divisional HQ diary courtesy of National Archives via Ancestry.co.uk, shows the disposition of battalions

 

 

 

and to give you some idea square D.8 with Boetleers Farm... ignore the trenches as the map date September 1917

 

 

 

 

 

 

[deutscherinfanteriest]

I am doing a same research. Is there a map of Wervik (Menen) area of 1917?

 

Thanks for the attention

1 hour ago, NR72 said:

Hi all

 

I am after a trench map from early April up until 30th April 

 

Trying to ascertain my Grandads movements with the 8th Middlesex before him getting wounded on 27th ( thats when he reported it anyway) I think he was in area of Boetleers farm  referenced D 8 d  on Ypres Map and other references include trenches 25 26

 

This is what I know 

 

21/04 in huts "Square B 5 d

 

24/04   in position north of Verorenhock from trenches 23,24,25 with E Surreys

 

Digging party with 3rd Royal Fusilers 

Ammunition party - Suffolk 

 

25/04 attack on trench 25 with E Surreys 

 

Thank you , just trying to work out on Google maps where he was 

 

 

So your relative faced the awful first gas attack of First World War on Western Front?

Edited 14 November , 2020 by deutscherinfanteriest

[EDWARD1]

Have you read this  https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60779/images/43849_2279_0-00362?ssrc=&backlabel=Return

[NR72]

29 minutes ago, deutscherinfanteriest said:

I am doing a same research. Is there a map of Wervik (Menen) area of 1917?

 

Thanks for the attention

So your relative faced the awful first gas attack of First World War on Western Front?

Yes he did , it was such a confused time , a real fight for survival. I'm reading Magnificent  But not war by John Dixon , gives a good account. Wouldnt mind finding more 1st hand accounts 

[NR72]

45 minutes ago, EDWARD1 said:

Have you read this  https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60779/images/43849_2279_0-00362?ssrc=&backlabel=Return

Unfortunately I don't have ancestry subscription 

[NR72]

58 minutes ago, jay dubaya said:

Maps from 28th Divisional HQ diary courtesy of National Archives via Ancestry.co.uk, shows the disposition of battalions

 

 

 

and to give you some idea square D.8 with Boetleers Farm... ignore the trenches as the map date September 1917

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for these , still need find trench 25,26 etc 

[WhiteStarLine]

Quote

just trying to work out on Google maps where he was 

 

Here is jay dubaya's map overlaid on a modern map with current day Bootleer Farm in the same location as 1915 and with a pin on the 1917 trench marked as 25 (probably too far west to be the same one you are after),  Click to enlarge. 

Image overlay courtesy GeoRef

[NR72]

6 hours ago, WhiteStarLine said:

 

Here is jay dubaya's map overlaid on a modern map with current day Bootleer Farm in the same location as 1915 and with a pin on the 1917 trench marked as 25 (probably too far west to be the same one you are after),  Click to enlarge. 

Image overlay courtesy GeoRef

Thank you thats really helpful 

[evanrichards]

Hiya, awear this is an old topic but i am also researching boetleers farm and have found this map:

i am researching 1st monmouthshire regiment who were in the area in late april.

andrew-trenches-01.pdf

let me know if this is helpful :)

[WhiteStarLine]

Evan, welcome to the forum and that is a nice clear map.

There are also the Official History maps - several maps cover different days / nights in late April.  These have been georeferenced and an opacity slider lets you see the modern ground .

Official History 1915 Volume 1 Map 07 Edition: 1926
The gas attack on the 3rd Canadian Brigade on 24th April & the situation at night

 

[evanrichards]

That's great, thankyou! Do you have any idea where the general HQ would be? Great Great Uncle was a captain and tried to return from Monmouths position and was killed. Im trying to work out the trajectory he would have took to get there so I can find a rough location of where he was killed.

Thanks

[Dodram]

On 29/03/2024 at 09:04, evanrichards said:

Hiya, awear this is an old topic but i am also researching boetleers farm and have found this map:

i am researching 1st monmouthshire regiment who were in the area in late april.

andrew-trenches-01.pdf 1.74 MB · 8 downloads

let me know if this is helpful :)

I recognise the 8th DLI map. Have you had a chance to read their war diary? It contains a good account of the area, the action and the confusion. 

[evanrichards]

no i haven’t seen the diary, but have read an account from a book published later on. do you have a copy of the diary?

[Michelle Young]

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353523

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14055741
 

Links to Monmouths and DLI war diaries above. Free after you register, also free. 

[evanrichards]

brilliant thankyou i will have a look- i’ve read the monmouth diary but it focuses more on the other companies as C was off doing their own thing up at boetleers… i’ll have a read if the DLI one and see what i can find out 

[brianmorris547]

4 hours ago, evanrichards said:

brilliant thankyou i will have a look- i’ve read the monmouth diary but it focuses more on the other companies as C was off doing their own thing up at boetleers… i’ll have a read if the DLI one and see what i can find out 

Evan

The WD of 1 Monmouths 23/04/1915 records that the Bn relieved 12 London in the trenches S of Zonnebeke. On 24/04 C Co, Capt Perry, was ordered to report to Major Barrett NFs at Zonnebeke Church. The WD of 2 Northumberland Fusiliers (WO 95/2277) records that a Mixed Force under Major Barrett was deployed S W of the St Julien - Zonnebeke Rd. On 26/04 the WD of 1 Monmouths records that C Co returned and Captain Perry was killed. It does not say if he was killed on the return or in action with the Mixed Force. SDGW records that Benjamin Lewis Perry was killed on 26/04. As shown on the above map of Gravenstafel Bootleer is at D 8 d 2 9 which is north of the road. I am assuming of course that Capt Perry is your man.

The only contemporary map of Zonnebeke is in the April 1915 WD of 85 Infantry Brigade. TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2278. D 8 is off the map but above D 14.

Brian

[evanrichards]

wow Brian that is superb, from an account later on it was said that C company was ordered to withdraw but the order was cancelled- Perry went for orders and was killed on the way. i’m not sure on an exact location, so you have an idea of where they would have pulled back too or where he would need to go for orders? 

The canadian command were stationed inside boetleers farm so would that be somewhere to by o for orders?

everyone’s help is truly humbling

Evan

[brianmorris547]

Evan

His obituary from the South Wales Weekly Argus 01/05/1915. Courtesy BNL via FMP. 

Brian

[Dodram]

1 hour ago, evanrichards said:

wow Brian that is superb, from an account later on it was said that C company was ordered to withdraw but the order was cancelled- Perry went for orders and was killed on the way. i’m not sure on an exact location, so you have an idea of where they would have pulled back too or where he would need to go for orders? 

The canadian command were stationed inside boetleers farm so would that be somewhere to by o for orders?

everyone’s help is truly humbling

Evan

Evan,

The Canadians were only in Boetleers until the 8th DLI arrived and took over on 24/25th April. Lt Col Turnbull, the DLI's CO seems to have given orders for the deployment of neighbouring units of Monmouths and Middlesex.  Though he thought the Monmouths were TF. 

But read the 8th DLI WR. There was a huge amount of confusion including over 

1 which Brigade was responsible for them- 85th or Canadians

2 whether they were to withdraw or hold. Some units did withdraw without Turnbull's knowledge

Turnbull sent officers back to 85th Brigade HQ for orders but it sounds like they didn't really know what was happening either. They said a Bde of reinforcements would arrive, but didn't.
It is possible your GG Uncle was killed going to Turnbull but I would suspect it more likely he was going back to Brigade for information. Which brigade were the Monmouths in? The brigade WR should give you a position.  But I suppose it's possible he went to 85th Bde or the Canadians if he thought they were in charge of the area

[evanrichards]

Have downloaded the war diary so will have a look. The 1/1st monmouths were in 160th Brigade from what I can gather. 

Could you clarify terms "TF"

I would have thought he'd go to major Barrett for orders?

[evanrichards]

"underneath trench 8 was a bomb proof shelter fortified with sandbags. this was used as a ....... and ........ and as a telephone room for communications with 2md brigade canadians HQ, and also with the trenches."

Fill in the gaps!

Could Perry have gone here to get orders? yes it is communication with canadians but they have a telephone link to the HQ which surely would have been the most efficient form of communication by Cpt Perry. it doesn't make sense to run a kilometre or too to brigade HQ.

[WhiteStarLine]

Quote

this was used as a first aid post and as a telephone room for communications with 2nd Bde (Canadian) HQ and with the trenches.

 

[Dodram]

3 hours ago, evanrichards said:

 

Could you clarify terms "TF"

 

Territorial Frorce, TA in modern day parlance. The 8TH DLI were also TF and had just arrived in Flanders Just realised that the 1st monmouths were indeed TF

Edited 1 April by Dodram

[evanrichards]

Okay great thankyou, do you think he would have gone to this telephone room to get his orders?