Guest Stoner Posted 10 June , 2003 Share Posted 10 June , 2003 I wonder if any one can help with some references to some rather obscure Btns, They are taken from a local newspaper Roll of Honour, which was supplied by the participants family, well here goes 23rd Rifles (I presume this is of the London Rgt?) Sportman's Battalion I. O. S. C. (Indian?) A. S. C. Remount Squadron Hausa Force R. N. A. S. 4th Div. Armoured Car (anything apart from the Obvious?) 47th Territorial troop (Cavalry or Yeomanry) Public School Brigade, Royal Fusiliers (wasn't the 16th Middlesex known as this? Or am I being stoopid?) Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jock Bruce Posted 10 June , 2003 Share Posted 10 June , 2003 23rd and 24th Royal Fusiliers were respectively 1st and 2nd Sportsmens, 18, 19, 20 and 21 R Fus were 'Public Schools' - see the mother site. Hasau Force - Africa (West ?) RNAS = Royal Naval Air Service Jock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stoner Posted 10 June , 2003 Share Posted 10 June , 2003 Thanks Jock I had a quick look on there, but when you don't know what you are looking for it's a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack!! Hausa - Have found another reference to the individual and you were right: Craven Hon. Rupert, Captain, Royal Scots Fusiliers has joined the Hausa Force on the West Coast of Africa Thanks again Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 10 June , 2003 Share Posted 10 June , 2003 Mark, ASC - Army Service Corps - Remount Squadron?? Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_davies Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 Mark, Could the 23rd Rifles refer to an Indian Army unit ? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 4th Div. Armoured Car (anything apart from the Obvious?) Didn't the R. N. A. S. run the Armoured Car sections or were they more widespread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 Remount units were concerned with the provision of replacement horses - a very big undertaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 Lee There was originally an armoured car section that was under the admiralty in 1914 but i think later the majority of newer units were army controlled. Those in the desert definately were. Some came under the control of the Tank corps, i have a modern post card showing 17th battalion tank corps at Amiens 1918 though i am not sure they all came under Tank corps control. Also there was an admiralty unit that saw service in Russia that was under Lampson? i think his name was and i think he wrote a book about his exploits. Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hill 60 Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 Arm - I knew the RNAS had them and I had a sneaking suspision that they were more widespread later on, thanks for confirming it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 (edited) Arm/Lee Oliver Locker-Lampson MP raised his own armoured-car unit (15 Squadron) for service in Flanders. When trench warfare became the norm the RNAS wanted to disband its armoured-car squadrons or pass them over to the army; eg the Duke of Westminster's 2 Squadron went to Egypt as hinted at by Arm. Locker-Lampson was not having any of this and got himself and his unit invited to Russia. In Jan 1916 they landed at Alexandrovsk (Murmansk) with 33 armoured-cars and 4 Pierce-Arrow heavy lorries armed with 3 pounders, plus support including wireless trucks and cranes. They fought in the Caucasus region before being transferred to the Galician Front and Romania. During/after the Russian revolution Trotsky tried to arrest members and to confiscate equipment, however they succeeded in leaving via Murmansk. Some of this outfit would eventually return to Russia with 'Dunsterforce'. This from "Royal Naval Air Service 1912-1918" by Brad King (plenty of photographs for those interested in both the RNAS's planes and their armoured-cars.) The RNAS also had armoured-cars at Gallipoli but they were of little use due to the nature of the battleground, though their maxims did provide absolutely vital cover from the bow of the 'River Clyde' at the V Beach landings Regards Michael D.R. Edited 11 June , 2003 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 11 June , 2003 Share Posted 11 June , 2003 I think "I.O.S.C." is probably I A S C which was Indian Army Service Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownag Posted 14 June , 2003 Share Posted 14 June , 2003 Sorry it's too late at night to work out how to use the quote function. Re- 23rd Rifles. In the Indian Army the 23rd Infantry Regiment was the 23rd Sikh Pioneers. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinWills Posted 14 June , 2003 Share Posted 14 June , 2003 The RNAS also had armoured-cars at Gallipoli but they were of little use due to the nature of the battleground, though their maxims did provide absolutely vital cover from the bow of the 'River Clyde' at the V Beach landings The role of the Armoured car units at Gallipoli is one still to be explored fully. There was an attempt to use the vehicles in the battles of Krithia, with little success but the dismounted guns were very widely used throughout the peninsula throughout the campaign. Another good example was there use at Suvla on the Kiretch Tepe Ridge at Jephson's post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 14 June , 2003 Share Posted 14 June , 2003 4 Div Armoured Car - the closest I can come is No 4 Squadron Royal Naval Armoured Car Division, which consisted of 12 Rolls-Royces. One section went to the Dardanelles in April 1915 and the remainder to Egypt in June 1915. For those who want to know more about British armoured cars in 1914-18, and the miscellany of units which used them, I would recommend David Fletcher's `War Cars: British Armoured Cars in the First World War' HMSO, 1987. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stoner Posted 15 June , 2003 Share Posted 15 June , 2003 Thanks to all for taking the time to post Isn't it amazing how something that has baffled you for hours, seems so obvious as soon as someone else puts their viewpoint in? Still, I suppose the Information from the roll of honour is probably third hand, the servicemen writing to their relatives, their relatives writing to the newspaper and finally the newspaper putting it into print, and so their are bound to be misunderstandings? One other thing that I have noticed with my local RoH is the lottery of which Btn an individual served with? The majority of men served in the following county Regiments (in order of precedence) Royal Berkshire, Wiltshire & Ox & Bucks, but it seems that only the Wilts men ever have a Btn listed, a couple of the not so common Regts (Hussars, Dragoons, Royal Fusiliers and a few others) also tend to have info on which Btn the man was serving with. I just wondered if this was due (as it seems) to any official correspondence from the regiment to the soldiers family, i.e. "your son is serving with the Royal Berkshire's" or " your son is currently serving in the 3rd Btn Wiltshire Regiment". A lot of the Wilts listed are as 3rd and then sent on as reinforcements. Or perhaps it's something as simple as the Wilts men wrote home on headed note paper or such? Any ideas? Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purley Posted 9 February , 2004 Share Posted 9 February , 2004 One other thing that I have noticed with my local RoH is the lottery of which Btn an individual served with? The majority of men served in the following county Regiments (in order of precedence) Royal Berkshire, Wiltshire & Ox & Bucks, but it seems that only the Wilts men ever have a Btn listed, a couple of the not so common Regts (Hussars, Dragoons, Royal Fusiliers and a few others) also tend to have info on which Btn the man was serving with. I just wondered if this was due (as it seems) to any official correspondence from the regiment to the soldiers family, i.e. "your son is serving with the Royal Berkshire's" or " your son is currently serving in the 3rd Btn Wiltshire Regiment". A lot of the Wilts listed are as 3rd and then sent on as reinforcements. Or perhaps it's something as simple as the Wilts men wrote home on headed note paper or such? Any ideas? Mark Would be very interested in a copy of the RoH you are referring to - Which Newspaper was it? Faringdon Advertiser? or North Berks Herald? - the NBH certainly did a good job on the Abingdon RoH and it is very hit and miss whether or not they give a battalion. From all the correspondence we have on the Royal Berks it is pretty clear that most relatives knew which Bn their men served in as they had to quote it on letters and parcels. I think the RoH would have been compiled by Faringdon Town Council and it might be worth looking up the minutes of the Council around that time to see what information they actually asked for and who they asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stoner Posted 9 February , 2004 Share Posted 9 February , 2004 Purley The majority of men I have listed are taken from the Faringdon Advertiser. Their Roll stops in March 1916 (Official explanation was that they wanted to comply to Governmemnt regulations on saving paper, but I think it may have had something to do with the large numbers of casualties that were being reported), but I have copies of most of them up until then, just send me your email off forum and I'll see what I can do. From the form in the paper I would think that it was compiled from individual families writing in to the paper themselves but thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't thought to look there!! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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