Researching Police Coronation/Jubilee medal groups

[ozmedals]

A friend of mine has just bought a police medal group of 3 consisting of 1897 Jubilee and 1902 and 1911 coronation medals.

He has some research on the police officer concerned, but is asking if police service records or any other info may be available.

He also has found some photos online.

This is what he has so far :

I have just purchased a Police Coronation medal grouping of 3 and have always thought these were un-researchable. This group has been sitting in an Antique shop for years in Brisbane Queensland, my brother knows the owner well and I asked him to make an offer well below the asking price and she accepted. I have managed to find a bit on the Police Officer in question, however, is there   other information out there such as service records to Police Officers? I also found some photos of the family on Ancestry.                                                                                                               The Police Officer is:      Station Police Sergeant Harry Edward ENGLISH
Harry was born on 4th July 1866 at Poplar, Middlesex, England,  and he was the son of John Frederick English and Ann Elizabeth Anderson. The 1881 Census shows him living with his parents at 68 Hind Street All Saints, Poplar, London as a 14-year-old, and like   his father is shown as a Mast Maker. At  the age of 20 he enlisted with the Metropolitan Police on 28th November 1887, just missing out on the 1887 Queen’s Jubilee, and at the height of the "Ripper" Murders, and he was issued warrant number 72943. Harry was  assigned to “G” Division (Kings Cross) and he married Alice Hall    on 24th November 1890. The 1891 census shows them both living  at Clerkenwell, London, England which was only approx. 2.6 miles from Whitechapel in “H” Division where the Jack the Ripper murders were happening. On 25th May 1896 he was promoted to the rank of Sergeant and transferred to “T”  Division and the following year he took part in the 1897 Jubilee and received  the Metropolitan Police 1897 Jubilee Medal. The 1901 Census lists him as a Police Sergeant living at Twickenham, Middlesex, England, with  his wife Alice and their two sons, Harry Frederick English aged 8 and Charles Robert English aged 6.                                                                                                                                                                                                             On 15th February 1902 he was appointed Station  Police Sergeant in “P” Division, and he received the 1902 Police Coronation Medal.                         The 1911 census shows the family living at 2 Howson Road, Brockley  in a separate dwelling attached to the Brockley Police Station and Harry is listed as the Police Sergeant. He took part in the 1911 Coronation and received the Police 1911 Coronation Medal. The 1911 census show states their son Harry as  18 and he is employed as a turner at  an Electrical Engineering Company and their younger son, Charles, now 16, is shown as a shop assistant at a Dental Manufacturing Company. During the First World  War Harry’s youngest son enlisted in 1914 with the Royal Field Artillery and he was allocated service number 94005. Harry served through the war as Police Sergeant at the Brockley Police Station till he retired on 10th  January 1918 after serving 30 years with the Metropolitan Police. His son  Charles was awarded a Military Medal for Bravery in the Field in August 1917 and he was wounded in action on 27th August 1918.  He was evacuated back to England with gunshot wounds to his  right leg and to his back. While recovering from his wounds it was announced that he had been awarded a  Bar to his Military Medal.                                                After Harry’s retirement he and his wife lived at 15 Glynde, Lewisham, London where they are recorded to have lived till at least 1939.                                  At some stage during or after the Second World War they moved to 135 Court Road, Orpington, Kent where Harry died on 21st February 1946, aged 80.

Does anyone know the whereabouts of his son's MM and Bar plus trio group ?                                                                                                            just interested to see if its survived and if its in a collection somewhere.
 

thanks, any additional info would be greatly appreciated

[Guest]

Here are some photos of the family, Charles Robert English won a MM, then he was wounded in action and evacuated to England. While recovering it was announced he had been awarded a Bar to his MM. There is an interesting letter by him in his service records asking the Military what did he do too deserve the award. I would be interested to know if his medals have survived. His father, Harry Edward English served as a Police Sergeant during the First World War, if there are any police collectors out there I'd like to no if there are service records for them, or is there any available records. 

 

I am new to his forum and I'd appreciate any help with this.

Kerry

 

(Thanks for directing me to this web site David)

[ozmedals]

Here are the medals 

 

 

[Toontraveller]

Hi, I am not a medal expert so unfortunately can not assist with the medal request.

 

In relation to the Police Service of Sgt Harry Edward English W/N 72943 Metropolitan Police, London there are no records of service that would be available. 

 

However if you contact  the Metropolitan Police Heritage Centre via e-mail  on heritagecentre@met.pnn.police.uk they will look to see if anyone has previously submitted documents or researched Sgt English. Please note the Heritage Centre is due to move from its current location and a lot of documents,  books and artefacts have already been packed ready for the move.

 

Due to the current Covid 19 restrictions the Heritage Centre is closed to visitors. The staff are currently working away from the premises but do monitor and respond to the e-mails. 

It appears as if you already have a lot of information regarding the dates of his service so apology if this duplicates what you already have identified.

 

A pension record for Harry Edward English, Metropolitan Police is available on Ancestry under London Pension Met.Police Pension records. I note that he received a pension of £99 2s and 10d and served for 30 years.  The normal service period was 25 years so it looks as if he stayed on as an experienced Sergeant during the First World War period when thousands of regular Police Officers from the Metropolitan Police joined the Armed Services.

 

There  is a record of his joining and leaving the Metropolitan Police available via the National Archives in the UK.  Its free to register at the National Archives (nationalarchives.gov.uk) and you can download certain documents for free at the moment. 

[Allyg]

Charles Robert English  was my grandfather. He died in 1945. Thank you for this information, I’m researching his military record. 

 

[Coldstreamer]

From the rolls by JHF Kemp

The metropolitan police the men and their medals volume 1

[Coldstreamer]

This confirms the three medals and the division in which he served with

[Ivor Anderson]

FROM: https://britishmedalforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=1179524&hilit=94005+english#p1179524

Sydenham, Forest Hill & Penge Gazette - Friday 05 October 1917
"Gunner Charles English, R.F.A., son of Station Sergeant English, attached to Brockley-road Police-station, has been awarded the Military Medal for bringing in under heavy shell fire an officer and two men who had been gassed."
Believed to be 94005 Gunner Charles R. English, M.M. (and bar), C/76 Brigade, Royal Field Artillery.

[Ivor Anderson]

His MM Index Card at TNA - ref WO 372/23/103847 - second MM (Bar) in LG 11 Feb 1919, for the Battle of Amiens 8 August- 6 Sept 1918:

He may be listed in the 62nd Bde RFA war diary along with others? He was with C/76th Bde RFA when he earned his MM bar:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31173/supplement/2083

Edited 11 August , 2022 by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

His service record survives: https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=1219&h=639781&tid=&pid=&queryId=4c20ec73ac0c3abbfbed25cf830423ed&usePUB=true&_phsrc=qzF690&_phstart=successSource

[Allyg]

Thank you Ivor, I’m delighted to find out more about my grandfather. 

[Ivor Anderson]

His MM & bar sold on ebay on 20th September 2021 for £730:

[Allyg]

Thank you. I’d love to buy them back, I wonder who bought them? 

[Jim Strawbridge]

Years ago a website called blacksheepindex.co.uk had all sorts of information from police archives that, if I remember correctly, included service awards. Alas, that site seems to have folded unless anyone knows if it transferred to another website.