9th Royal Scots kilts

[Httc]

Hello members,

 

has anyone ever noticed an anomaly in the way RS kilts have been made over the years? Have a look at the images attached. Unlike all the other regiments, the RS seem to have drifted between yellow stripe to centre, red stripe to centre and even the fabric turned to 90 degrees! Look very closely at the pattern. This is crazy!

[gordon92]

It will be quite difficult to sort out your issue with historical photographs.  The photography of the time rendered the red and yellow stripes dark, and are, thus, indiscernible in such images.  Your best bet is to attract the attention of the Forum expert on 9RS member Neil Gilhooley.  Perhaps, you may wish to send him a PM alerting him to your query.  Neil has written a book on the Battalion.  See......

 

 

[Httc]

Thank you. I’ve sent him a message. Intrigued to find out his he has the answer!

[Neill Gilhooley]

Well, my first reaction was to see if gordon92 knew the answer. He helped me with endless questions when I was writing the book and is recognised on the forum for his expertise. Failing that... Someone else?

I have seen almost always b&w. I've a couple of colour pictures on flickr. Gordon92 pointed out to me that No.8 Hunting Stewart is probably a post-Second World War identifier.

There is a kilt forum you could try http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum ?

 

[Neill Gilhooley]

@Glengarry1950 might have a sample book page

 

[gordon92]

Thanks for weighing in on this issue, Neill.

 

Here are my thoughts on the question posed by member Httc regarding whether there was a red or yellow stripe to the center.  I would stress that this is mere speculation on my part:  One strong possibility is that the whims of the CO determined whether the kilt was configured with either red stripe or yellow stripe to the center. This may have changed as a new CO took command and older kilts required replacement.  The remaining kilts of the previous pattern would have been made into trews.  Another possibility is that there was one configuration for pipers and another for all other ranks.  An example of this can be seen in photos of the 1st Bn HLI in India pre-WW1.  All other ranks wore their MacKenzie tartan kilts with white vertical lines in a box at the front while pipers' kilts positioned a white line in the center to align with the white edging on the green serge frock.  See photo below where the HLI Pipe Major is standing back row on left.

 

Question to Httc: Don't understand your point about "the fabric turned 90 degrees." Please explain.

 

Mike

 

Edited 16 October , 2020 by gordon92

[Httc]

Hi Gordon92, what I mean by 90 degrees is, if you look at the tartan there is for want if a better description a more solid dark check that goes:

- — — -

and a lighter dark check made up of lots of intersecting lines that goes:

- - -    - - -

The tartan pattern goes: solid check followed by yellow line, intersecting check followed by red line. In some of the kilts, the fabric is used horizontally and sometimes vertically. This is hard to explain but if you look closely at the photos you’ll hopefully see what I mean!

Edited 16 October , 2020 by Httc

[gordon92]

1 hour ago, Httc said:

Hi Gordon92, what I mean by 90 degrees is, if you look at the tartan there is for want if a better description a more solid dark check that goes:

- — — -

and a lighter dark check made up of lots of intersecting lines that goes:

- - -    - - -

The tartan pattern goes: solid check followed by yellow line, intersecting check followed by red line. In some of the kilts, the fabric is used horizontally and sometimes vertically. This is hard to explain but if you look closely at the photos you’ll hopefully see what I mean!

 

Most military tartans are based upon the basic underlying Government tartan.  The Hunting Stuart tartan superimposes yellow and red overstripes on the Government tartan, Gordon yellow stripes, MacKenzie white and red, Leslie white and red, Forbes white, etc.  What you are describing is the basic pattern of the Government tartan. This will vary slightly in line density and color by manufacturer and quality level.  Hope this helps.

[Httc]

Sorry Mike, but Hunting Stewart is nothing like Government Tartan other than sharing it’s broad bar followed by two narrow lines, see images. Also, Hunting Stewart is unusual in that:

 

’the half sett is not reversed to create a symmetrical square. Instead the full sett is simply repeated from right to left across the cloth.’

 

Which is why it matters which direction the cloth is used. You can’t turn it 90 degrees and have the yellow or red stripes in the same place. With Black Watch, you can use it in any direction.

Edited 16 October , 2020 by Httc

[gordon92]

55 minutes ago, Httc said:

Sorry Mike, but Hunting Stewart is nothing like Government Tartan other than sharing it’s broad bar followed by two narrow lines, see images. Also, Hunting Stewart is unusual in that:

 

’the half sett is not reversed to create a symmetrical square. Instead the full sett is simply repeated from right to left across the cloth.’

 

Which is why it matters which direction the cloth is used. You can’t turn it 90 degrees and have the yellow or red stripes in the same place. With Black Watch, you can use it in any direction.

You are right, Httc.  The Hunting Stuart is an asymmetrical set.  I don't know what I was thinking.  Thanks for the additional photos.

 

Mike