Hans ter Borgh Posted 17 October , 2020 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2020 59 minutes ago, RaySearching said: William Holmes name appears in the Roll of Honour (The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) (a native of Hull) Following on from our genealogy detective Peter’s candidate for William Holmes KIA 20/9/1917 It appears that the "candidate" we have for William Homes, brother Frank Holmes also fell From the website Kingston On Hull War Memorial Website Frank Holmes has a Soldiers effects entry which lists his father John W as the legatee of his effects ( The effects payment authororised on the 13/9/19) which correspond's with the entry above Which poses the question if William Holmes who was killed in action in 1917 (before Frank Holmes) and effects were unclaimed despite being advertised was he the son of John William and the brother of Frank or is our candidate another William Holmes ? at present it is inconclusive Ray Thank you Ray, interesting information however complicating...Please note that the place of death of William Holmes was in Belgium rather than France!.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 17 October , 2020 Share Posted 17 October , 2020 (edited) On 09/10/2020 at 00:34, PRC said: There was a marriage of a John William Holmes to an Annie Elizabeth Pogson recorded in the Sculcoates District in Q3 1890. Hi All, This is the marriage of our William's parents. Q3 Sulcoates 1890, 9d, 199. 6th Sept. 1890 St.Andrew's Church, Drypool, Hull. 1891 census John W and his wife Annie E, both aged 22yrs are living at 6 John Terrace, Southcoates, Sulcoates, Kingston upon Hull... Annie died 1904 Sulcoates, 9d, 142. aged 35yrs, Annie was born in Lincolnshire and John Parr 1911 census head of house was also born in Lincolnshire. He was working in the Seed Industry as a Kiln Dryer and William was indeed occupied in seed crushing as a seed oilmiller.....perhaps William moved in with the Parrs when his mother died.....The above details for his brother Frank are , in my opinion, correct....His other brother Harry, 1899-1970 went to live with his Uncle George Pogson at 6 Princess St, Lincoln, 1911 census. John William Holmes died 1936 Q3 9d, 271 Hull aged 67 yrs...searching for the descendants. Regards Barry EDIT...Public Tree on Ancestry here....https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/57235311/person/270041694392/facts Harry had a daughter Jean Margaret, she died 10.8.2009 in York married name Brown...searching..... Edited 17 October , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 17 October , 2020 Share Posted 17 October , 2020 13 minutes ago, The Inspector said: .The above details for his brother Frank are , in my opinion, correct... Barry I agree that the details for Frank are correct but was our William his brother All we have to go on at present is that our William Holmes was born Hull his next of kin resided in Bellshill there was of course a number of William Holmes born Hull who would have been eligible for service the outstanding question remains why was Franks effects claimed by his father and our Williams Holmes effects unclaimed our William of course could have had another forename or a middle name but enlisted as plain William Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 17 October , 2020 Share Posted 17 October , 2020 (edited) Hi Ray and all I agree, The birth cert. for William Seldin Holmes, Q3, 1891, Sulcoates 9d, 168 will confirm the parents.....working on the rest! Searching the other siblings all points to the 1911 census record as being the same John William Holmes ????? especially the daughter Lily Holmes 1900-1991. Birth Cert 9d,246, Q3 1900, Sulcoates, East Riding,Yorkshire. John William Holmes was born, Sydenham, Kent, on this census his wife , Anne Jane is shown as Sydenham, Kent, Is it possible that John W put the birth places in the wrong order on purpose? His wife was probably born Beverley, Yorks......searching Regards Barry Edited 17 October , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadbrewer Posted 18 October , 2020 Share Posted 18 October , 2020 4 hours ago, The Inspector said: Hi Ray and all I agree, The birth cert. for William Seldin Holmes, Q3, 1891, Sulcoates 9d, 168 will confirm the parents.....working on the rest! Searching the other siblings all points to the 1911 census record as being the same John William Holmes ????? especially the daughter Lily Holmes 1900-1991. Birth Cert 9d,246, Q3 1900, Sulcoates, East Riding,Yorkshire. John William Holmes was born, Sydenham, Kent, on this census his wife , Anne Jane is shown as Sydenham, Kent, Is it possible that John W put the birth places in the wrong order on purpose? His wife was probably born Beverley, Yorks......searching Regards Barry Barry...I've been doing a bit to try and follow it up...although it's not collated sensibly yet, but on the face of it, it seems the bulk of the family remained in Hull. There is a tree on Ancestry that suggests that Ancestors were still around as late as 2011....the snag is it's a tree that I don't have confidence in as it shows our man's father marrying the same woman in 1905 and 1922. I'll get back asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 18 October , 2020 Share Posted 18 October , 2020 (edited) Lets recap We have been searching for the family of Pte W Holmes 27628 9th Bn Scottish Rifles KIA 20th Sept 1917 Listed as born Hull enlisted Hamilton (next of kin listed as residing Bellshill) He has been attributed by the compilers of the Kingston on Hull war memorial website as the son of John and Annie Holmes This data may or may not be correct Forum geneology detective PRC (Peter) has gone to great lengths and followed up on the family listed on the Kingston on Hull war memorial website (parents John William and Annie Holmes) And whilst the family are good candidates for the relatives of William there is no collaborating evidence to confirm or prove they are Whist it has been ascertained that the family John William and Annie Holmes of Hull lost a son Frank in the Great War, confirmed by the register of soldiers effects, no collaborating evidence has been found that their older son William Selin Holmes also perished The register of soldiers effects show that Pte W Holmes 27628 9th Bn Scottish Rifles effects were unclaimed, despite being advertised ! William Holmes is a fairly common name there was a number of William Holmes who were born in Hull and the right age, who would have been eligible to serve in the Great War The cutting provided by Sadbrewer lists William Pte 27628 next of kin as residing Kilmarnock Unless any further evidence can be found regarding his parents or family I feel that William’s identity may remain a mystery I feel that the only way that the identity of his parents can be possitivly ascertained would be if a newspaper cutting turns up reporting his death by a family member The 1921 census register when it is released may reveal candidates who were born in Hull and resided in the Bellshill area who could be checked out as possible family members Hans Ter Borgh It may be worthwhile contacting the compilers of the Kingston on Hull war memorial website and ask where the information that Williams parents were John and Annie, originated from Edited 19 October , 2020 by RaySearching correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans ter Borgh Posted 18 October , 2020 Author Share Posted 18 October , 2020 Thank youbRay, I just did that.. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 19 October , 2020 Share Posted 19 October , 2020 (edited) Hi All, Searching the siblings... Harry Holmes b.1899 attested 11.8.1917 aged 18 yrs 32 days Pte. 95939 1/5th Notts and derby. Address 63 Princess St., Lincoln. Records show Father John William Holmes, 26 Daltry St, Hull. Harry was injured/missing 27.5.18. , POW Located 82 POW COY. 30.8.19. To Class Z 6.12.19. 1911 census shows a Harry Holmes, born Hull, 11 yrs with his Aunt and Uncle George and Florence Elizabeth POGSON at 6 Princess St., off Lofthouse Lane, Lincoln. They have been married 12 yrs and have no children. ????Is this Harry our William's brother, if so their father was at 26 Daltry St in 1917.....looking Regards Barry Edited 19 October , 2020 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans ter Borgh Posted 19 October , 2020 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2020 We are getting close..!? I sent out a message to the Memorial Hull people.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 19 October , 2020 Share Posted 19 October , 2020 Hi George Pogson was Annie Elizabeth Pogson's brother, b.1870 Lincoln died 15.12.1935 @ 63 Princess St., Lincoln. Florence Elizabeth (nee Holmes) his wife was born 23.12.1874 Cawston, Norfolk d.23.12.1946 in the Workhouse in Lincoln. Had been in the workhouse in Aylsham in1881 with her father and 3 other siblings....looking Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans ter Borgh Posted 19 October , 2020 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2020 What is a workhouse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 19 October , 2020 Share Posted 19 October , 2020 Hi It is was a hostel for those who were at the end of the line and just couldn't manage. seehttp://www.workhouses.org.uk/... Harry Holmes 1939 register, Air Raid Warden, 1 Edna St., Lincoln. was born 26.7.1899 so it looks as though he was the brother but is he the right one? Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans ter Borgh Posted 7 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2020 Hello, I have sent out questions to Kingston upon War Memorial 1914-1918 mr Paul Bishop, secretary. Unfortunately they do not have further information to trace William Holmes. What can we do? Regards Hans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 7 November , 2020 Share Posted 7 November , 2020 1 hour ago, Hans ter Borgh said: What can we do? You could chose another random soldier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans ter Borgh Posted 7 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2020 Yes that may be a good advise. But then again it does not feel good to stop the quest. This young man died overseas in the mud of Flanders, not really having a chance and then, double sadness, his personal effects have not be called for. Tragic. He deserves that we find the siblings of his brother, if any. Can I contact the authorities in Lincoln to further trace down brother Harry? or the workhouse in Lincoln? best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 7 November , 2020 Share Posted 7 November , 2020 54 minutes ago, Hans ter Borgh said: Can I contact the authorities in Lincoln to further trace down brother Harry? or the workhouse in Lincoln? I'm not sure, but I don't think the Lincoln Workhouse is open any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans ter Borgh Posted 7 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2020 I see. Thanks. So that is a dead end...And how about the authorities who register inhabitants etc in the city? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 7 November , 2020 Share Posted 7 November , 2020 9 hours ago, Hans ter Borgh said: Hello, I have sent out questions to Kingston upon War Memorial 1914-1918 mr Paul Bishop, secretary. Unfortunately they do not have further information to trace William Holmes. What can we do? Regards Hans Hans I previously wrote Hans Ter Borgh It may be worthwhile contacting the compilers of the Kingston on Hull war memorial website and ask where the information that Williams parents were John and Annie, originated from Did you receive an answer to this question ? Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans ter Borgh Posted 7 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 7 November , 2020 No, not this specific question. I gave him all info uptill now and he replied that unfortunately etc... Would you be so kind to ask him this? paulbishop@paulbishop.karoo.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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