Derby Scheme Arm Band

[Alan24]

I purchased this very nice item at a Militaria Fair in Petersfield at the weekend for £40.

 

It was sold as an original and seems to be in very good condition compared to others seen on the net.

 

I can't quite make out the manufacture - it looks like - The Keingey Mfg Co Ltd. RH15...?

 

Can anyone ID the manufacturer? 

 

Regards

 

Alan.

[TullochArd]

Nice item Alan24.  The manufacturers stamp has defeated me so far.  I can add that the number is unique to the individual it was issued to.  I have knowledge of one such number being recorded on a Service Record* for unusual reasons which dosn't bode well for a general search for 15366.  Good luck with that one!  Regards.  Ian

 

* In January 1916 an armlet was issued by the Cheshire Regiment to Thomas Duddel Green under 'Derby Scheme' direction as a volunteer who had been rejected. The armlet was returned to the unit by the Police Superintendent of Rawtenstall "who was unable to find any trace of Green in this neighbourhood" and recording the armlet number as 19319 in a letter later included in the Service Record. Hardly surprising as the 5 foot 1 inch Thomas Duddel Green had been serving in France as George Low with 1st Battalion King's (Royal Lancaster Regiment) since May 1915.

 

Edited 30 September , 2020 by TullochArd

[Keith Brannen]

The Klinger MFG Co LTD?

 

Bit of information here:

 

 

[Alan24]

Ian, thanks for that reference, I'll look up that record some time, it looks an interesting read.

 

I've seen one reference to an arm band number being recorded in a service record but can't put my finger on it.

 

I never expect to ever find the original receiver, judging by the condition I wonder if it was ever issued at all.

 

Keith, I think you're spot on with The Klinger Mfg Co Ltd - I can see it now. Thanks for pointing that out. What I thought was RH15 might be a date, logically 1915.

 

Regards

 

Alan.

 

 

Edited 30 September , 2020 by Alan24

[Tom K]

If it were unissued the buttons would not be attached - they were to be sewn on by the man and were supplied looped together by a short piece of thread running through one of the button holes as seen in this thread: 

It is not surprising that it survives in such good condition - it was only worn for a couple of weeks and then most were safely tucked away as a keepsake. 

 

T.K.

[RussT]

55 minutes ago, Alan24 said:

I've seen one reference to an arm band number being recorded in a service record but can't put my finger on it.

 

I've come across these from time to time - a couple of (unfortunately rather poor) examples ....

 

Russ

[RussT]

Here's some more a bit clearer ....

 

 

[Barwinmol]

I recently researched my Grandmother's brothers who went to war.

Samuel Skipper,joined up 6-8-1914 into the RFA as a driver. Discharged 19-6-1915 for medical reasons 'concussion of the brain' [sic]-I assume a horse kick?

This topic has answered a query for me-

13-1-1916 Receipt of 1 Khaki Serge Armlet Serial No 26227, I had wondered what that was.

Is it possible to track this serial number down anywhere?

Thanks in advance.

[Alan24]

1 hour ago, Barwinmol said:

13-1-1916 Receipt of 1 Khaki Serge Armlet Serial No 26227, I had wondered what that was.

Is it possible to track this serial number down anywhere?

Unfortunately not, there are no remaining records of which serial numbers were issued to which men or where, but occasionally you do see it recorded in service records. 

The armlets themselves were supposed to be handed back in once a man was mobilised to his unit. 

[Barwinmol]

1 hour ago, Alan24 said:

Unfortunately not, there are no remaining records of which serial numbers were issued to which men or where, but occasionally you do see it recorded in service records. 

The armlets themselves were supposed to be handed back in once a man was mobilised to his unit. 

Interesting that you say to be handed back in on mobilisation,from his records he was issued with his armlet on medical discharge.

[Alan24]

1 minute ago, Barwinmol said:

Interesting that you say to be handed back in on mobilisation,from his records he was issued with his armlet on medical discharge.

The date you give of 13 Jan 1916 is consistent with attesting under the Derby Scheme upon its reopening on 10 Jan 1916, having previously closed on 15th Dec 1915. 

Normally this would be issued at that time to show that he was not a 'shirker' and is doing his bit, avoiding the attention of white feathers etc. 

 

Was he discharged on 13 Jan 1916? The Silver War Badge was created for similar reasons, to show he had done his bit. He should have been issued with that rather than an armlet.

 

I don't have the exact date that the SWB was created to hand, but maybe his discharge predated the SWB and he was issued with the armlet instead. The SWB could be claimed retrospectively. 

[Barwinmol]

28 minutes ago, Alan24 said:

The date you give of 13 Jan 1916 is consistent with attesting under the Derby Scheme upon its reopening on 10 Jan 1916, having previously closed on 15th Dec 1915. 

Normally this would be issued at that time to show that he was not a 'shirker' and is doing his bit, avoiding the attention of white feathers etc. 

 

Was he discharged on 13 Jan 1916? The Silver War Badge was created for similar reasons, to show he had done his bit. He should have been issued with that rather than an armlet.

 

I don't have the exact date that the SWB was created to hand, but maybe his discharge predated the SWB and he was issued with the armlet instead. The SWB could be claimed retrospectively. 

He was discharged 19-6-1915 and his record card shows he was issued the Silver War badge as well,a family photo shows him wearing it in his lapel.

[Alan24]

15 minutes ago, Barwinmol said:

He was discharged 19-6-1915 and his record card shows he was issued the Silver War badge as well,a family photo shows him wearing it in his lapel.

Is it possible that he re-engaged in some kind of war related work, e.g. Home Guard, Munitions Work or Civil Defence, or versions thereof?

 

Not sure why he would need an armlet and SWB. 

 

Edit. Looks like SWB was introduced Sept 1916, so the armlet could have been used for that reason, although that wasn't what it was intended for.

Edited 12 February , 2021 by Alan24

[Alan24]

There is a letter in the Hampshire Chonicle, presumably published late 1915, from a former serviceman who complains that young men who had attested under the Derby Scheme and had "done nothing" were swanning about town in admiration, wearing their armbands, whereas someone like himself who had seen action at the front and been discharged were given nothing more than a piece of paper (discharge certificate) which had to be produced from a coat pocket every time he was challenged. 

Presumably the introduction of the Silver War Badge eventually made things easier.

[clive_hughes]

I could easily be barking up the wrong tree here, but haven't I read somewhere that men who had been medically discharged were also given this armlet (prior to the SWBs)?  It was supposed to have caused some problems when issued to Derby men, for this reason.