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Soldiers Effects - Named executor is another Pte


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Pte Frank Frear #24245 KLR perished at Guillemont 30th July 1916 CWGC

This is bit of a long shot, was Dugan with him that day ? (Pte W.E.Dugan #308116 KLR)

Seems a strange arrangement since he had family back in Liverpool.

thanks

Dave

 

From Anc.

1410311838_Screenshot2020-09-28at11_02_39.png.e7242896fac8d3e8e2bbc30224cb4f8e.png

Edited by davidbohl
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Or it could be that he wanted his personal effects shared among his mates - not an unusual request.

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29 minutes ago, davidbohl said:

Pte Frank Frear #24245 KLR perished at Guillemont 30th July 1916 CWGC

This is bit of a long shot, was Dugan with him that day ? (Pte W.E.Dugan #308116 KLR)

Seems a strange arrangement since he had family back in Liverpool.

thanks

Dave

 

From Anc.

1410311838_Screenshot2020-09-28at11_02_39.png.e7242896fac8d3e8e2bbc30224cb4f8e.png

 

     David, I think the old adage  may explain this-"Man chooses his friends but God chooses his family"   Do we know if Dugan survived?   A small side thought on this must be-how did a man change his soldier's will??   I would suspect that naming another soldier is not that uncommon-but what if the "executor" pre-deceased?????  Again, I suspect there is something in the rules for this.

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45 minutes ago, davidbohl said:

Pte Frank Frear #24245 KLR perished at Guillemont 30th July 1916

"Soldiers Effects - Named executor is another Pte"

"Seems a strange arrangement since he had family back in Liverpool."

 

At WFA/Fold3 a pension card [one of three records] shows as a dependant/beneficiary his mother, Mary Jane Frear, and Medical Certificate: "Quarter"

Such an occasional annotation on a PC I believe commonly suggests a level of impairment, though type not often shown [often relates to ability / disability for employment I believe] - of 1/4 for her - so perhaps Frear thought matters would be better handled by another due to such a situation.

You may have more info on personal circumstances for him / her - so just a speculative idea.

???

:-) M

Edited by Matlock1418
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19 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

Do we know if Dugan survived? 

Dugan passed away in L'pool 1959 aged 72

 

Pte Frear was a compositor at the Liverpool Courier,

he has a family notice,  father had died by 1918

FrearF_ExtraFamilyInfo_1918Jul30.png.41278afa3851e41f7d24bc229fa5d6a7.png

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, squirrel said:

Or it could be that he wanted his personal effects shared among his mates - not an unusual request.

That would depend on who the beneficiaries were, rather than who the executor was.  It is entirely possible that he didn't own more than he had in his pockets plus back pay.

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8 hours ago, davidbohl said:

Pte Frank Frear #24245 KLR perished at Guillemont 30th July 1916 CWGC

This is bit of a long shot, was Dugan with him that day ? (Pte W.E.Dugan #308116 KLR)

 

To have a stab at the first part of the question, and assuming that no-one has been able to find any surviving service records for William Dugan, then it seems unlikely. But that depends on how accurate the record keeping was in the part of the relevant records office that dealt with the Kings.

 

His Medal Index Card only shows his service number as 308116 and he only qualified for the Victory Medal and the British War Medal. As the service number is almost certainly a Territorial Force renumbering from the start of 1917, if the MiC is a totally accurate statement then that would imply he didn't go overseas until after the renumbering. Of course there are plenty of examples I've come across over the years of other regiments \ corps records office who haven't bothered to show the original TF number for men who went out in 1916 - I just don't have any experience of the King's practice on this.

 

The LLT tells us that the service number block 305001 to 330000 were issued to the 8th Battalions of the The Kings as part of the renumbering exercise.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/

That would be the 1/8th and 2/8th Battalions by that stage of the war - the 8th Reserve ceased to exist in 1916.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/kings-liverpool-regiment/

 

Obviously if the Service Medal Roll for his Victory and British War Medals was completed correctly it should show all the units William Dugan served with overseas - but again I've no experience of what the King's record keeping is like in this area. Of course he may have served with other Battalions, but as the 19th Battalion that Frank Frear was serving with when he died was a war time service only Battalion, once again looking unlikely the two were at Guillemont together. I see from Franks' MiC that he landed in France on the 7th November 1915.

 

8 hours ago, davidbohl said:

Seems a strange arrangement since he had family back in Liverpool.

 

It seems unlikely this was just a soldiers will - or if it was William Dugan thought it appropriate to register it with the courts. The 1916 Probate Calender records that

 

1006231428_FrankFrear1916ProbateCalendarentrysourcedhttpsprobatesearchservicegovuk.png.f9a55604719eb2a4e151c0204b15900c.png

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar#calendar

 

So William is shown serving in another Territorial Force Battalion , the 7th, at the time probate was applied for. As there was a 7th Reserve Battalion , he could well have been serving with them, going out as a draft to the 8th later. So without geting a copy of the will this would have to be speculation, but seems possible the will was drawn up when Frank has signed up and William was still a civilian. It could even be that William was called up until after the MSA, at which point Frank was in France and other than writing a soldiers will had limited scope to amend his exisiting will.

 

7 hours ago, davidbohl said:

Pte Frear was a compositor at the Liverpool Courier,

he has a family notice,  father had died by 1918

FrearF_ExtraFamilyInfo_1918Jul30.png.41278afa3851e41f7d24bc229fa5d6a7.png

 

It appears that brothers John and Walter Frear were also serving in France. Depending on when they joined up, William Dugan may have seemed the safer choice. On the 1911 Census Francis, James Albert and Edmund Walter, (both younger than Frank - Edmund was only 15), were the only sons of James and Mary Jane Frear recorded living with them - although one of their living children is unaccounted for.

 

There is no MiC match for a James A, but there is a Private 10001 James Frear, Liverpool Regiment, who qualified for the 1914/15 Star, (first Theatre shown as (5GI) Asiatic), and an Private 357821 Edmund W Frear, Liverpool Regiment, (VM & BWM only).

 

Hope some of that helps,

Peter

Edited by PRC
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It is likely that Francis Frear and William Dugan knew each other before the war. William was also employed in the printing trade as a  printer in 1911 and was listed as a Commercial Printer Manager in Charge of Works in 1939.  Just an aside - William Dugan's father William Henry Dugan was an artist who may be the same one who painted the "Siege of Rorke's Drift" displayed in the Regimental museum of the Royal Welsh.

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I think we have cracked it with the 1914 Gores Liverpool:-

 

Dugan & Co, printers, 247 Smithdown Lane.

 -------- William E., printer (D . & Co.) 75 Egerton Rd. Wavertree.

 

An educated guess would be after 1911 with the Liverpool Courier Frank was working for Dugan & Co. ?

 

Well done all

Dave

Edited by davidbohl
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3 hours ago, davidbohl said:

An educated guess would be after 1911 with the Liverpool Courier Frank was working for Dugan & Co. ?

 

11 hours ago, davidbohl said:

Pte Frear was a compositor at the Liverpool Courier,

 

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales Frank was 25 and W.E Dugan was 24, (and already listed as an Employer). Age wise they were very much contemporaries so could have been at college together \ trained together or met through a social activity. I assume the second statement about Frank being a print compositor comes from something written in the Liverpool Courier - in which case does it not give a brief resume of his work career, or indicate either when or how long he worked for the paper. That in turn would give you any potential time window when he would have known William Dugan as an employer, (and therefore an odd choice for an executor, which is where we came in :), rather than as a trusted friend.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

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15 minutes ago, PRC said:

Frank being a print compositor comes from something written in the Liverpool Courier

Peter, the info is from 1911 census itself

 

From FamilySearch

 

FrearF_1911.png

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11 hours ago, davidbohl said:

Peter, the info is from 1911 census itself

 

Apologies - missed that piece of information. Should either go to Specsavers or look at things with a higher maghification :)

 

236303587_FrancisFrear1911CensusofEnglandandWalessourcedGenersReunited.jpg.d01b40551ae19fb21a7b48bd0528142e.jpg

(Source: Genes Reunited)

 

My understanding is that at that time you had to be 21 or over to be an executor, so that would have ruled Edmund Walter out right up until the time of Franks' death. Checking back through the 1901 and 1891 Censuses, Francis is the oldest child shown on both. There is a John Stott Frear, (aged 1 on the 1891 Census, born Lowick), who appears to be on the 1911 Census as a Cowkeepers Assistant, aged 21, born Lowick, living in the household of his uncle, William French at 34, Freehold Street, Fairfield, Liverpool.

 

Father James is shown as a Farmer. He does not however appear to have a probate - that might have given some insight into whether female members of the family wanted to\were deemed able to sort out financial affairs. If father James was in failing health then that might have ruled him out.

 

My experience of newspaper employees who joined the armed forces in the Great War based on Norfolk newspapers is that they tend to be both a news source and also guaranteed a few column inches in the event of their death - hence my presumption that this was the source of the information. Worth bearing in mind if you can track down a source for the Liverpool Courier either online or offline.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, PRC said:

Specsavers

Apologies accepted Peter, I'm a regular customer at Specsavers myself, thanks for all the help.

Can't find anything in the online Liverpool Courier and Commercial Advertizer, and from prior experience reading the microfiche version at Central Library is hard work, it's poor quality and in reverse negative.

 

Just need to find out if he was KIA or as recorded in newspaper clip DOW.

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, PRC said:

seems possible the will was drawn up when Frank has signed up and William was still a civilian

Unlikely, I think, as Dugan is shown as a Private, and with a regimental number. Or unless the document copied in Ancestry was the grant of probate, not the will itself

 

Ron

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