called up from reserves at the outbreak of the war

[RaySearching]

Called up from reserves at the outbreak of the war

How was it achieved

 

I had always assumed  that a brown envelope would drop on the floor of the last known address of the reservist

telling him to report at such and such a place on a given date

 

would I be correct in this assumption 

 

Ray

[ss002d6252]

That's correct - the mobilization regs required that there be a mobilization scheme kept ready and records had to maintain mobilization forms for each reservist. The reservist was required to keep the unit updated with his address.

 

Just the other day I came across a copy in a service record. I was going to save a copy but forgot !

Craig

[RaySearching]

Craig

 

Thanks for the clarification 

 

Regards Ray

 

[ss002d6252]

30 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

Craig

 

Thanks for the clarification 

 

Regards Ray

 

I have 1914 Mobilization Regs if there's anything specific you need.

Craig

[Keith_history_buff]

Some interesting content on the specific page of this gargantuan thread. 

I recall mention of soldiers having a rail warrant, if they lived some distance from their depot.

Taken from the same thread as above

  

On 30/11/2015 at 11:43, Muerrisch said:

regarding the issue of Reserve pay quarterly:

The Officer in Charge of Records and the Paymaster of the Regimental District required reservists to submit a “Life Certificate”, Army Form D 462, quarterly, as proof that they were indeed alive. Poor people moved rented house very often, so the certificate gave an up-to-date address to which to send correspondence. Each soldier held a rail warrant to ensure that he had the means to report on mobilisation or as required. If he were to be recalled, he would retain any substantive rank and good conduct badges.

Clearly the soldier would be in serious trouble if he failed to report for his brief refresher if summoned. Never in my fairly extensive reading have I found record of any such summoning. Has anyone else, please?

 

I am under the impression that the Special Reserve were mobilised on 8 August 1914, but the Army Reserve had been mobilised prior to that date, with 5th August ringing a bell. This is a "belief" that I have, and I do not have source material with which I can back up this assertion.

 

 

 

 

[Muerrisch]

This does not quite answer your query but may help. From memory, mobilisation of the regular army, the army reserve, and the special reserve, was simultaneous.

I will dig around.

These notes are from an article of mine in the journal of the WFA, 2014.

 

Relevant Army Orders (AO) and War Office Instructions (WOI) up to the end of March 1915

 

6^th August. Ex-regular soldiers invited to enlist in SR for one year or the duration AO.295.

6^th August. Enlistments invited for New Armies, three years or the duration. AO.296.

6^th August. 100,000 regulars to be enlisted. Large influx at Depôts expected. WOI.32.

7^th August.^. Kitchener’s Appeal for 100,000 men. WOI.37.

7^th August. Home Line battalions to send one captain, two subalterns, two serving sergeants, 13 other sergeants and corporals as drill instructors for New Army unit, the latter may be reservists. WOI.41

10^th August. Reserve battalions to send one captain and one subaltern to Depôt to assist training new units. WOI.59.

11^th August. Depôts to train New Army units. WOI.65.

16^th August. As each 100 New Army men become clothed at Depôt to be sent to Training Centre. WOI.112.

17^th August. All new recruits aged 30 years and over to Reserve battalion not to New Army.  WOI.117.

20^th August. Reserve battalions to be grown to 2000 Other Ranks but only after “the service battalion” has been formed. After this, fill the Depôt, after this, divert to another regiment. WOI.288.

24^th August. Discharges on termination of engagement are suspended, soldiers held to serve extra year or demobilisation. AO.328.

1^st September. Reserve Battalion to be at 1018 all ranks. An extra company to be formed for each 100 recruits in excess. As a company becomes trained it is to be drafted to service companies i.e. to Service battalions. WOI.2.

2^nd September. When Service battalions of new division are filled, Reserve battalions to grow to 2000 all ranks. Surplus intended for next new division. WOI.11

4^th September. Surplus recruits to be passed to reserve on half pay i.e. not trained until needed. WOI.49.

11^th September. Recall those recruits sent to reserve on half pay. WOI.151.

19^th September. Reserve battalions to grow to 2600 men. WOI.258.

 (No date, but before October). Depôt establishment to be 550 Other Ranks once Reserve and Service units filled. WOI.190.

8^th October. To form a Service battalion from each Reserve battalion for Fourth New Army. WOI.76.

26^th October. Maximum number of battalions in the field to be supported by one Reserve unit to be six, assuming 2600 at Reserve unit and 500 at Depôt. Appendix lists regiments needing extra WE at Depôt and includes RWF, extra 500 men. WOI.293.

16^th January 1915. Transfer into Reserve battalions urged for TF men with Imperial Service obligations. Need for reinforcements for the Expeditionary Force. WOI.118

2^nd February. Reserve units to be 2080 all ranks, and additionally convalescents and those permanently unfit for active service. WOI.16

NB. AOs are numbered consecutively through a year, WOIs through each month.

[RaySearching]

Grumpy

Many thanks for your informative reply

 

 

Ray

 

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Ray

 

In addition to the notifications already mentioned, mobilisation notices were displayed at post offices, and reservists had been told that, on seeing such a notice, they should report without delay, even if no recall letter had been received.

 

It is also true that the paperwork which a man was given, on being transferred to the Reserve, did include a railway warrant to his place of mobilisation.

 

Ron

[RaySearching]

Thanks Ron

every little bit of info helps

 

Ray

[tullybrone]

Hi,

 

The attached image of a strip of Mobilisation rail warrants comes from the Scots Guards service files from the 1930’s recently made available on FMP. Although out of period for the forum I doubt the forms would’ve changed much -if at all - since WW1. A number of the Scots Guards files have various other blank mobilisation forms ready for completion as required. They were prepared in the months before a man was due to complete his colour service and go on to Class B Army Reserve. From memory - The man named in this example was due to complete his 4 years colour service in July 1939.

 

Steve

Edited 28 September , 2020 by tullybrone

[RaySearching]

Today just by chance whilst researching a soldier

 

Among his service records is his notification requiring him to rejoin the colours  

 

 

May be of use to someone in the future

 

Ray

[Keith_history_buff]

The aforementioned Royal Warrant dated 20th October, 1915 also gets quoted in the following proclamation

Dated 10 April 1916 - PROCLAMATION POSTER, ARMY RESERVE/ ARMY RESERVE (MILITARY SERVICE ACT, 1916)

[Muerrisch]

I think this man is a Derby scheme man, enlisted and immediately transferred to the Reserve, rather than a SectionA, B, or D reservist. In other words, this is not the recall of a trained soldier.

Alternatively he is a man "deemed to have enlisted" [i.e. conscripted] under the Military Service Act of 1916, or as amended.

 

Experts please.

[Alan24]

This may interest some.

From a book on Lost Gardens of Heligan, Cornwall.

 

This suggests that they were called out on Sunday 2nd Aug.

 

I suspect many of these men ended up in the RND.

Edited 4 October , 2020 by Alan24

[robbie56]

This caught my attention -

 

“Soldiers serving 12 years with the Colours and those granted permission to serve beyond 12 years to pension had no reserve liability.”

 

A relative served 21 years and 66 days with the Scottish Rifles. Sixteen of those years in India. He was discharged July 1912 after giving three months notice. At the age of 42 years he rejoined the Army and served with the 7th Seaforths from the beginning of the war or at least the beginning of 1915. He died of wounds received Loos.

 

As he had served more than twelve years as a Regular prior to the outbreak of war does this mean he at least volunteered for service thereafter ?

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, robbie56 said:

This caught my attention -

 

“Soldiers serving 12 years with the Colours and those granted permission to serve beyond 12 years to pension had no reserve liability.”

 

A relative served 21 years and 66 days with the Scottish Rifles. Sixteen of those years in India. He was discharged July 1912 after giving three months notice. At the age of 42 years he rejoined the Army and served with the 7th Seaforths from the beginning of the war or at least the beginning of 1915. He died of wounds received Loos.

 

As he had served more than twelve years as a Regular prior to the outbreak of war does this mean he at least volunteered for service thereafter ?

A soldier who enlisted for 12 years could choose to stay on and extend his service to the 21 years.

Once he was discharged to pension then he was out of the army but he could re-enlist in the right situation.

Craig

[robbie56]

Thanks for the reply Craig. Would it therefore be true to say that his re - enlisting was his choice ? Maybe saying the same thing but was he, as far as the Army was concerned, not under any obligation to serve again ?

R

[ss002d6252]

3 minutes ago, robbie56 said:

Thanks for the reply Craig. Would it therefore be true to say that his re - enlisting was his choice ? Maybe saying the same thing but was he, as far as the Army was concerned, not under any obligation to serve again ?

R

In August 1914, it would be a voluntary re-enlistment where he had no other reserve liability.

Craig

[robbie56]

Thanks Craig. I always thought he had no choice in the matter but it would appear otherwise, for whatever reason. He left a wife and five children too.

Many thanks again,

R

[RaySearching]

10 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

I think this man is a Derby scheme man, enlisted and immediately transferred to the Reserve, rather than a SectionA, B, or D reservist. In other words, this is not the recall of a trained soldier.

Alternatively he is a man "deemed to have enlisted" [i.e. conscripted] under the Military Service Act of 1916, or as amended.

 

Experts please.

 

 

I am not an expert  

 

But this may assist

Attested 10/12/1915 and  placed in army reserves  Pte 26752 (14th (S)  Bn West Yorks

called up for service from reserves,

 transferred to 11th Bn DLI     Pte 52608

posted to 22nd Bn DLI

Killed in action 26/3/1918 

 

several pages of his service documents can be found on Ancestry

 

 

 

 

Ray

 

 

[ss002d6252]

15 minutes ago, robbie56 said:

Thanks Craig. I always thought he had no choice in the matter but it would appear otherwise, for whatever reason. He left a wife and five children too.

Many thanks again,

R

What was his name/service number ?

Craig

[robbie56]

CSM Thomas Edward Dean, S/3958, 7 th Seaforth Highlanders.

 

Also attached is a Discharge document with a number top left. Not sure if that is for clerical purposes or personal to him,

Regards,

R

[FROGSMILE]

44 minutes ago, robbie56 said:

CSM Thomas Edward Dean, S/3958, 7 th Seaforth Highlanders.

 

Also attached is a Discharge document with a number top left. Not sure if that is for clerical purposes or personal to him,

Regards,

R

That’s very typical of a time served SNCO.  He has qualified as an instructor and then at the end of his service, as per entitlement, applied to be posted near to home (this was specifically introduced as a privilege for long serving soldiers to ease back into civilian life as close as possible to where they intended to settle).  In this case he was posted to the Special Reserve battalion of his regiment (before 1908 its militia battalion) as a permanent staff instructor.  When war broke out he would have felt under immense moral pressure to voluntarily re-enlist due to the publicly declared shortage of qualified (especially relatively recently employed) military instructors.

 

NB.  It was no small achievement at that time to leave the army with the highest character assessment of “exemplary”.

Edited 4 October , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[robbie56]

When war broke out he would have felt under immense moral pressure to voluntarily re-enlist due to the publicly declared shortage of qualified (especially relatively recently employed) military instructors.

 

Thanks for that. Looking at it from all possibilities my wife and I considered the moral question to be significant in his decision. I appreciate your insight and taking the time to reply.

I know that he was respected as key figure in the training at Fort George and also probably as a confidence booster to the young men around him whilst in France. The question that I have is as to whether he expected to be sent on active service or to be retained for training purposes in the U.K. Is it possible that he was given the choice to proceed to France or remain in UK ? He was 43 years old when wounded at Loos.

After the attack on the Hohenzollern Redoubt he wrote -
 

“as I looked along along the lines and saw the faces of the brave lads set and firm - who a year ago were anything from bank clerks to ploughboys - I felt it was the proudest moment of my life to be with them. The order to advance came.......”

I think that Maybe indicates the moral question You highlighted.

 

Regards,

R

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, robbie56 said:

When war broke out he would have felt under immense moral pressure to voluntarily re-enlist due to the publicly declared shortage of qualified (especially relatively recently employed) military instructors.

 

Thanks for that. Looking at it from all possibilities my wife and I considered the moral question to be significant in his decision. I appreciate your insight and taking the time to reply.

I know that he was respected as key figure in the training at Fort George and also probably as a confidence booster to the young men around him whilst in France. The question that I have is as to whether he expected to be sent on active service or to be retained for training purposes in the U.K. Is it possible that he was given the choice to proceed to France or remain in UK ? He was 43 years old when wounded at Loos.

After the attack on the Hohenzollern Redoubt he wrote -
 

“as I looked along along the lines and saw the faces of the brave lads set and firm - who a year ago were anything from bank clerks to ploughboys - I felt it was the proudest moment of my life to be with them. The order to advance came.......”

I think that Maybe indicates the moral question You highlighted.

 

Regards,

R

You ask an interesting question.  Being an infantryman was very demanding from a physical viewpoint because of load carrying and marching in all kinds of weather, sometimes over long distances, all of which would have taken a toll on him during his lengthy pre-war service.  Although trench warfare (once it set in) reduced some of the marching, as the army began to use London buses and small gauge railways to move troops over longer distances where possible, living in the trenches in all weathers brought further demands.  Over several centuries the army had learned that few men were not worn out after 21-22 years service, when the average age was around 40, and so that had remained the most usual point at which to retire from regular army service, although a very few engaged for ‘long service’ (i.e. extended career) in administrative roles in Britain.  Ergo his regiment would have been aware that he was past military retirement age and less fit than younger men, so it seems quite likely to me that he must have asked to go, and perhaps been persistent about doing so, although of course it’s not possible to be 100% sure of that.  Certainly it was unusual in the very early part of the war for relatively elderly ex-soldiers to enter active service, and of those that did it seems that quite a few were soon evacuated home once the rigours had compromised their health and thus usefulness.  Very large numbers of retired (‘time-served’) soldiers and officers reengaged during the war (they even coined a new euphemism ‘dugouts’), with most becoming instructors and trainers.  Far fewer went overseas.  

Edited 4 October , 2020 by FROGSMILE