Sharonp Posted 16 September , 2020 Share Posted 16 September , 2020 Just curious, The individuals who were executed during the conflict, "shot at dawn", did their families receive a death plaque, or even any medals that they were entitled to? Thanks, Sharon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 16 September , 2020 Share Posted 16 September , 2020 (edited) The numbers of plaques issued outnumbered the total of commonwealth War dead. Plaques were issued in respect of individuals whose deaths fell outside the 'usual' WW1 date perameters so who would not therefore be conventionally regarded as 'war dead'. I'm also not clear as to the numbers of plaques that were returned as 'undeliverable' (recipient moved away or dead) in the way that many campaign medals were returned for the same reason. I think that confuses the calculation as to whether plaques were issued in respect of every commonwealth war death. As for whether 'Shot At Dawn' cases were explicitly excluded from the plaque scheme, I simply couldn't say. Edited 16 September , 2020 by headgardener poor mathematical skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 16 September , 2020 Share Posted 16 September , 2020 Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to remember the number of death plaques was 1,355,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 16 September , 2020 Share Posted 16 September , 2020 6 minutes ago, museumtom said: Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to remember the number of death plaques was 1,355,000 Yes, 1,355,000 with "He Died" and a further 600 with "She Died". Source: Medal News Yearbook 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 16 September , 2020 Share Posted 16 September , 2020 So, almost 2 million plaques, yet only about 1.7 million commonwealth War dead. An interesting statistic...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 16 September , 2020 Share Posted 16 September , 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, headgardener said: So, almost 2 million plaques, yet only about 1.7 million commonwealth War dead. An interesting statistic...... Not quite sure of your numbers there! I thought is was 888,246 commonwealth dead - same number as the Tower of London Poppies. (I'm sure there are several different numbers commonly used by historians.) Total Plaques 1,355,600. Be interesting to know what kind of souls the other 467,345 were. Edited 16 September , 2020 by Alan24 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 16 September , 2020 Share Posted 16 September , 2020 (edited) CWGC state 1.7 million commonwealth War dead. As for plaques, my mistake, I counted 600 'she died' as 6,000..... So that's about 344,000 fewer plaques than war dead. Hope I got those figures right! EDIT: NO...! I got it wrong. 1.7m war dead in total, WW1 was about what you said.... Sorry, bit distracted this morning.... Edited 16 September , 2020 by headgardener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharonp Posted 16 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2020 So deserters wouldn't have received a death plaque or medals? Sharon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 16 September , 2020 Share Posted 16 September , 2020 Deserters' campaign medals were usually forfeited unless they subsequently rejoined. And obviously they wouldn't have received a death plaque if they survived long enough to have rejoined....... 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharonp Posted 16 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2020 What about those that were shot for deserting, would their family receive anything? S x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 16 September , 2020 Share Posted 16 September , 2020 I simply couldn't say whether or not they received a plaque. The system by which they were issued was completely separate to the system under which the army issued campaign medals. Men who were executed are commemorated by CWGC so I don't see why a plaque wouldn't have been issued. As for medals, I think most MIC's for the executed men show that their medals were deemed to have been forfeited on account of their desertion (or 'cowardice' or 'disobedience' or 'murder' or whatever other charge they were found guilty of - not all were shot for 'desertion'), but I seem to recall that a few medals were indeed issued. Their families or dependents typically were not given a pension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharonp Posted 16 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 16 September , 2020 Ok well at least i know now, did have clue this morning. Thank you as always. S.x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted 16 September , 2020 Share Posted 16 September , 2020 surprisingly so few signatures, or is it because of the feeling towards bad boys? https://petition.parliament.uk/archived/petitions/232792 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy Macpherson Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 The five New Zealanders shot at dawn for desertion and munity were not entitled to any medals or penny. John Braithwaite Frank Hughes John Sweeney John King Victor Spencer Mentions on their service files: Medal action complete - 'no entitlement to medals' or 'no medals to be issued' Wendy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacs Posted 4 October , 2020 Share Posted 4 October , 2020 I'm sorry to jump in on this thread but I'm just wondering if a soldier would have received a plaque if they committed suicide ?. I know this digressis from the original question but it's something I've wondered about for ages. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 4 October , 2020 Share Posted 4 October , 2020 Their families received their campaign medals, so no reason they wouldn't receive plaques. 50 minutes ago, deacs said: I'm sorry to jump in on this thread but I'm just wondering if a soldier would have received a plaque if they committed suicide ?. I know this digressis from the original question but it's something I've wondered about for ages. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deacs Posted 4 October , 2020 Share Posted 4 October , 2020 Oh that's nice to know that they would have cheers very much. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303man Posted 14 October , 2020 Share Posted 14 October , 2020 On 04/10/2020 at 18:42, deacs said: I'm sorry to jump in on this thread but I'm just wondering if a soldier would have received a plaque if they committed suicide ?. I know this digressis from the original question but it's something I've wondered about for ages. Regards Mike Yes is the answer, I have a plaque to a Warrant Officer, Remount depot cause of death "Gunshot Wound Head, Webley Revolver self inflicted". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kinsella Posted 17 October , 2020 Share Posted 17 October , 2020 Memorial Plaques & Scrolls were to be issued to the next of kin of all members of His Majesty's Forces who died on active service between 4/8/1914 and the end of the war (10/1/1920 Western Europe), (30/4/1920 other theatres). Except those that suffered death by Court Martial. 'Active Service' includes those on Home Establishment, those who died from sickness, accident or suicide (except under particularly disgraceful circumstances). And all those whose deaths were attributable to war service & died within 7 years of its end. Only women under contract to the War Office were eligible. ie (Those entitled to the King's Certificate of Discharge). Lists of names were submitted to the Plaque Factory& LCC School of Art by the War Office (Officers) or Records Office (ORs). Plaques were sent direct from the factory & scrolls through the Officers i/c Records. Regards. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchener's Bugle Posted 4 November , 2020 Share Posted 4 November , 2020 The Regulations regarding the issue of the Plaque, Section 2 - Principles Governing the Issue of the Memorial Plaque and Scroll - Paragarph 2 " The Plaque and scroll are to be given in respect of all those who die on active service (except those who suffer death by sentence of Court Martial) betweem 4th August and the official date of the end of the war as promulgated by Order in Council......" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin astill Posted 4 November , 2020 Share Posted 4 November , 2020 To receive a plaque inscribed "He died for freedom and honour" for a relative who was shot for deserting, murder or similar might seem to be taking satire a bit too far. Edwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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