Map Battle of Pilckelm Ridge July 1917

[squirrel]

Is anyone able to point me in the direction of a map showing the blue, black and brown lines etc. for this battle on 31st July 1917?

Particularly interested in anything showing the tank positions/advances on the day.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited 9 September , 2020 by squirrel

[IRC Kevin]

Sorry can't help with the wider picture, but 55 Divison's objectives (denoted Blue, Black and Green lines) for 31 Jul 17 below. One map below is from General Jeudwine, the Divisional Commander's, own papers deposited at Liverpool Record Office. The second map shows tank routes in 55 Division's area- taken from the Divisional Diary for July 17 (WO95 2903 2_2)

 

 

Edited 9 September , 2020 by IRC Kevin

[squirrel]

Excellent. Thanks very much indeed.

[GTB]

Hi IRC Kevin

 

I’m very interested in the tank movements supporting the 164th 165th and 166th BDE’s of the 55th Division on the 31st July 1917 at 3 Ypres, especially those tanks near to Bossaert Farm. I have been to look at the Juedwine papers at the Liverpool Record Office, there are a lot of them, have you a reference number for the map you have shown on this thread (the first map). I’m particularly interested in a tank called Friar Tuck (F12), and any other tanks near to this farm. I would like to obtain decent copies of both maps you have posted on this thread - best way to get them? Are there any other maps available of the area in question regarding tank movements? Is the second map you have posted reference tank movements in the Juedwine papers at the LRO or only available from the National Archive?
 

Many thanks in advance.
 

Regards, Gary.

[IRC Kevin]

11 hours ago, GTB said:

Hi IRC Kevin

 

I’m very interested in the tank movements supporting the 164th 165th and 166th BDE’s of the 55th Division on the 31st July 1917 at 3 Ypres, especially those tanks near to Bossaert Farm. I have been to look at the Juedwine papers at the Liverpool Record Office, there are a lot of them, have you a reference number for the map you have shown on this thread (the first map). I’m particularly interested in a tank called Friar Tuck (F12), and any other tanks near to this farm. I would like to obtain decent copies of both maps you have posted on this thread - best way to get them? Are there any other maps available of the area in question regarding tank movements? Is the second map you have posted reference tank movements in the Juedwine papers at the LRO or only available from the National Archive?
 

Many thanks in advance.
 

Regards, Gary.

 

Hi Gary,

From memory, the Jeudwine map is replicated in 55 Division's diary- I just included the photo I took of it at Liverpool as it was quicker than doing a screenshot of the divisional diary. I've had a look through my book on the 1/4th KORL and there's no mention of actions around Bossaert Farm, which would have been attacked by 166 Bde. There's no mention of tanks in the after-action reports of 1/5th KORL either, though they may have been very slightly right of there. Here's the link to the Jeudwine papers in Liverpool Archives http://archive.liverpool.gov.uk/calmview/TreeBrowse.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&field=RefNo&key=356+FIF

[TullochArd]

From a micro level here is a 89 Brigade map (reference at top) for 17 and 20 KLR advance.  Please ignore the arrows as I can't seem to remove them and note capitalisation of LINE and TANK CORPS below is mine. 

 

From the OpO and the War Diary text we know:

 

5.20 am. 17 KLR and 20 KLR in position at Maple Copse and ready to advance through to GREEN LINE.

 

7.50 am Both battalions advance.  17 KLR on the left and 20 KLR on the right only to find that BLUE LINE had not fallen with troops of 21 Bde and 90 Bde still pinned down.

 

11.00 am It became obvious that the way ahead was blocked and 17 KLR and 20 KLR dug in on an old German support trench south of Stirling Castle  just short of the Division's first objective. About this time an officer in the TANK CORPS who’s tank was now destroyed, confirmed that Inverness Copse was still in German hands which convinced the 20 KLR officers that they had gone as far as they could. 

 

11.06 am Orders were received for 20 KLR to attack at 10.20am.  Major Watson (acting as Commanding Officer in the absence of Lt Col Douglas) rejected this order and a similar order to attack in the afternoon due to the impossibility of success whilst German machine Guns were still fully operational.

 

Major Watson’s communication to Brigade stated “front line now roughly along road south of Clapham Junction ..... enemy machine guns very active and any movement in forward positions is at once stopped by machine gun fire ...... without further artillery preparation, further attacks will be useless.  I am therefore holding on to present line”

 

This was a line just short of 30 Div’s first objective which was BLUE LINE.

 

Edited 7 October , 2020 by TullochArd

[GTB]

Hi IRC Kevin and TullochArd

 

Many thanks for the information and input, much appreciated. I visited the Liverpool Record Office today (09 10 2020) and located the top map of two you posted on this thread, a really well put together detailed map. If anybody else is interested in the map, it’s full title is the 196th Coy, Machine Gun Corps, showing barrage lines and route taken. Ref: FIF 356 2/2/21 - Liverpool Record Office. Another interesting map was FIF 356 2/2/ 43 - 55th Divisional Engineers map showing an equipment dump at Setques Farm, just south east of Bossaert Farm. Dump at C.23.b.5.15.

 

Regards, Gary.