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Remembered Today:

14962 Corporal John. H. Savage, Royal Field Artillery/Royal Garrison Artillery


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David Porter
1 hour ago, PRC said:

May be a co-incidence but a John H Savage married an Emma Clements in the Norwich District in Q2 1917.

 

It is the same person as in the 1911 Census for Norwich. He married his landlady, but between 1911 and 1917 she and her son changed surname to Clements. They are also on the Norwich Electoral Register for 1914/15 still at 40 Elm Hill.

 

1 hour ago, PRC said:

Again, may just be a co-incidence but the Queens South Africa Medal Roll and the King's South Africa Medal Roll has a J.H. Savage who served with the 19th Battery, Royal Field Artillery.

 

This is the John Henry Savage, wheelwright, born in Bromsgrove, enlisting on January 18, 1900 and given number 3610. His record is on Findmypast.

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1 hour ago, David Porter said:

It is the same person as in the 1911 Census for Norwich. He married his landlady, but between 1911 and 1917 she and her son changed surname to Clements. They are also on the Norwich Electoral Register for 1914/15 still at 40 Elm Hill.

 

On the Census she is shown as a 44 year old widower, Emma Brough, a Publican. The address was then the site of the Turkey Cock Public House, and Emma was the tenant licensee from 1910 through to 1921 - first as Brough and then from the 28th June 1917 as Savage. She had taken over from her late husband John William Brough who had been tenant licensee since 1901.  http://www.norfolkpubs.co.uk/norwich/tnorwich/nctuc2.htm

No reference to Clements, but a quick trawl through the details for Emma and her son on the 1911 Census indicates that Clements was her first married name and that Clements was the name her son was registered under. Would need more digging to firm that up.

 

While Mrs Brough would not have been entitled to a parliamentary vote in 1914/15, she does get a mention as the landlord of John Henry Savage and her son John Arthur Clements who both had furnished bedrooms on the first floor. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2CSM-PSF

From 1911/12 to 1914/15 she is recorded as entitled to vote in Municipal and Parish elections as Emma Brough.

Should make finding John Henry Savage on the 1918 Norwich AVL a bit easier :) - if it's still relevant.

 

1 hour ago, David Porter said:

This is the John Henry Savage, wheelwright, born in Bromsgrove, enlisting on January 18, 1900 and given number 3610. His record is on Findmypast.

 

Apologies for missing that one - is he a new candidate? I saw reference to a man with Banbury connections in earlier posts, but not Bromsgrove. Looks like he enlisted at Leicester, aged 26 years and 6 months, but next of kin, father Robert Arthur Savage, was still living at Bromsgrove. He was discharged on the 9th February 1901. There is a likely candidate on the 1911 Census of England & Wales - a 38 year old unmarried John Savage, born Bromsgrove and working as a Coachbuilder (body work) employed at a Motor Works, who was boarding at 10 Croft Road, Coventry.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited by PRC
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4 hours ago, PRC said:

Again, may just be a co-incidence but the Queens South Africa Medal Roll and the King's South Africa Medal Roll has a J.H. Savage who served with the 19th Battery, Royal Field Artillery.

Peter A lot of interesting red herrings there for sure. Do you have any idea of this fellow's service number?

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24 minutes ago, Sav said:

Peter A lot of interesting red herrings there for sure. Do you have any idea of this fellow's service number?

 

I didn't - but there was a man who did :)

 

3 hours ago, David Porter said:

This is the John Henry Savage, wheelwright, born in Bromsgrove, enlisting on January 18, 1900 and given number 3610. His record is on Findmypast.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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This might be a long bow but going back to the subject of Service numbers. I looked for the Service No 14962 RFA and came up with Horace Albert Woodward MM

He dies 29/1/19 and left a widow Lizzie. I then found his MIC and what I think is his 1911 Census Entry. He is a Farm labourer aged 29 and his wife is Lizzie. How many times would the same service number be used in the RFA? I cannot find Horace as an Army entry in the 1911 Census. If he had earlier Service -it was a long while before WW1 and he must have retained that number for some time. 

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Here is Horace's MM card confirming his forenames as Horace Albert. The source is the UK National Archive. It was gazetted six months after his death.

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David Porter

That is a good find. Horace Woodward will be one of the other men enlisting in 1896, 1901 or 1914. Also, you have found him in the 1911 Census which means he is (most probably) a reservist at that time. He is shown going overseas with 12th Brigade RFA on September 11, 1914 which is exceeding close to when the number 14962 was reissued in 1914. So, on balance, I would say Horace is a recalled reservist and rejoined in August 1914 to make 12th Brigade RFA up to establishment. In addition, if enlisting in 1901 and extending his reserve service into Class D (another 4 years), he would be caught by the Military Service Act of 1916 and have to serve for the rest of the war if still young enough to do so. 

 

This leads me to think that John Henry Savage was a re-enlistment in September 1914 and his previous service (under another number) was taken into account. He also has a skilled trade as he is classed as an artificer going overseas. I might be wrong, as neither men have surviving records, but those are my thoughts. 

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A check of the UK National Archive shows that Service No. 14962 was issued the RFA four times according to the MICs. In addition to the aforementioned soldiers in this topic we have Dvr. Shoeing Smith John R Hairsine  and Gnr. George Campbell who appears to have three MICs. These fellows must have all been serving concurrently in the RFA during WW1. Why three MICs?

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No. 672,14962, 797075 George Gilroy Campbell was born about 1896 and enlisted 19 Aug 1914. He has a surviving service record which says that he had no prior military service other than the Boys Brigade. He was also awarded the MM.

Edited by Sav
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David Porter

Great work Sav, but neither of your last two examples are connected to the Regular series over the decades, John R. Hairsine enlisted in the New Army under the locally raised brigades and his number should have an L prefix (which it does in the Medal rolls). George Campbell enlisted in the Territorial Force and for a short period in 1916 some men were issued with five figure numbers. At the beginning of 1917 the Territorial Force artillery as a whole were renumbered with unique six figure numbers. You were not to know this and I should have explained that the three dates I gave earlier applied to the Regular series only. There were similar numbers again in the Royal Field Reserve Artillery but they did not get as high as 14962 before recruitment was halted in February 1913. The three medal cards is unusual but may by due to his claim for additional medals like the MM and Territorial Awards (TFWM and TFEM). 

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