Researching.

[Miss Jones]

Hi. 

I've been researching my family tree. 

Long story cut a bit shorter, my dad never knew his father, only his name. I and my siblings have always wondered about him. My dad is no longer with us to ask questions but to be honest, he wouldn't have answered any. He kept his life, which seemed painful to him, quiet. He suffered after serving in WW2 and locked everything away. I picked up bits and pieces of my father's life from my mother after dad passed. 

Anyway, I've been searching for some time for my paternal grandfather and it's only because recently I did a DNA test that I discovered him. 

So, I've learned he served with the Welsh fusiliers in the great war. I've learned a fair bit about him. 

However, I have no definite photo of him. I have a photo but can't say it's him, I can only say he looks like my dad. 

How can I find out more about his army life, and hopefully discover a photo? 

It's difficult to say too much as this guy as I said, wasn't around around for my father, and there's his family that he did remain with. Even though many years have passed, I'm afraid to open a can of worms for them. 

[Polar Bear]

First, welcome to the forum.

 

Second have you looked at The Long, Long Trail Website that is linked to on this forum (towards the top left)? There you will find much information on researching a soldier. Be aware you may be in for a disappointment as many first world war records were destroyed by Luftwaffe bombing in the second.

 

Third, if you give us his name we might be able to find out a little more.

 

P

[FROGSMILE]

If you really want to find anything out you’re clearly going to give his name and if possible home town, as an absolute minimum, and even then without an approximate date of birth it will be challenging.  However, there are some very talented genealogical detectives in the forum who can often scrape together some service details.

Edited 5 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Miss Jones]

11 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

If you really want to find anything out you’re clearly going to give his name and if possible home town, as an absolute minimum, and even then without an approximate date of birth it will be challenging.  However, there are some very talented genealogical detectives in the forum who can often scrape together some service details.

Hi and thanks for your answer. 

I kind of gather I need to give something. I just I never hurt his family. At the end of the day, truth is truth. I don't feel anything bad towards anybody. My dad's father was a married man, but having come back from the war, I'm told was held prisoner before returning home, lord knows what his mind was like. 

His name was Ellis Jones. Born Pentraeth on Anglesey, 1898. He died in 1925 in Llangefni. His wife moved away with their son to Colwyn bay and remarried. 

[Miss Jones]

He was in, if this correct. 19th battalion. No: 28731

27 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

First, welcome to the forum.

 

Second have you looked at The Long, Long Trail Website that is linked to on this forum (towards the top left)? There you will find much information on researching a soldier. Be aware you may be in for a disappointment as many first world war records were destroyed by Luftwaffe bombing in the second.

 

Third, if you give us his name we might be able to find out a little more.

 

P

Sorry, only just seen your reply. Thank you. 

[sadbrewer]

34 minutes ago, Miss Jones said:

Hi. 

I've been researching my family tree. 

Long story cut a bit shorter, my dad never knew his father, only his name. I and my siblings have always wondered about him. My dad is no longer with us to ask questions but to be honest, he wouldn't have answered any. He kept his life, which seemed painful to him, quiet. He suffered after serving in WW2 and locked everything away. I picked up bits and pieces of my father's life from my mother after dad passed. 

Anyway, I've been searching for some time for my paternal grandfather and it's only because recently I did a DNA test that I discovered him. 

So, I've learned he served with the Welsh fusiliers in the great war. I've learned a fair bit about him. 

However, I have no definite photo of him. I have a photo but can't say it's him, I can only say he looks like my dad. 

How can I find out more about his army life, and hopefully discover a photo? 

It's difficult to say too much as this guy as I said, wasn't around around for my father, and there's his family that he did remain with. Even though many years have passed, I'm afraid to open a can of worms for them. 

 

My wife was in exactly the same situation.

  Her father never knew his real dad, but did know his name, Frank Horsfall . The family story was that he'd had an affair with my wife's Gran, and joined the Army to get away from his responsibilities...died in India....so no need to go looking for him.

  After her Dad died we cleared the house and found a box of papers from the MOD, they showed that he married in the UK a few years later and had two children in the 1930's..but was killed in a tank training accident on the eve of WW2...by genealogy means we found his son and wrote to him without mentioning the exact connection, he rang us and we got on like a house on fire, he actually wanted to know everything. It worked well for us, hope it can be the same for you.

   We also found my Mum's Grandad also had a son before he got married...that has worked out well too.

Edited 5 September , 2020 by sadbrewer

[Miss Jones]

1 minute ago, sadbrewer said:

 

My wife was in exactly the same situation.

  Her father never knew his real dad, but did know his name, Frank Horsfall . The family story was that he'd had an affair with my wife's Gran, and joined the Army to get away from his responsibilities...died in India....so no need to go looking for him.

  After her Dad died we cleared the house and found a box of papers from the MOD, they showed that he married in the UK a few years later and had two children in the 1930's..but was killed in a tank training accident on the eve of WW2...by genealogy means we found his son and wrote to him without mentioning the exact connection, he rang us and we got on like a house on fire, he actually wanted to know everything. It worked well for us, hope it can be the same for you.

How lovely. So pleased it worked well for you. 

My dad had a half brother. I'm sure my dad knew because mum said something to me one day about someone with a very similar name and yes, high my father and his half brother had very similar names. Both lived in pentraeth until the half brother moved, so I feel pretty sure they knew each other, if not that they were related. Pentraeth was a very small and tight knit community.  

[sadbrewer]

The members of this forum have solved quite a few of these riddles..for a recent example search Richard Graham Hatfield.

[alf mcm]

There is a family tree on Ancestry which has an Army service record for an Ellis Jones from Pentraeth. Could this be your grandfather?   https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/120620340/person/120195583872/facts

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

[sadbrewer]

4 minutes ago, Miss Jones said:

How lovely. So pleased it worked well for you. 

My dad had a half brother. I'm sure my dad knew because mum said something to me one day about someone with a very similar name and yes, high my father and his half brother had very similar names. Both lived in pentraeth until the half brother moved, so I feel pretty sure they knew each other, if not that they were related. Pentraeth was a very small and tight knit community.  

 

You do need to treat it with sensitivity, but on the other hand you have every right to know your history.

[Miss Jones]

9 minutes ago, alf mcm said:

There is a family tree on Ancestry which has an Army service record for an Ellis Jones from Pentraeth. Could this be your grandfather?   https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/120620340/person/120195583872/facts

 

Regards,

 

Alf McM

Hi, yes it is him. I've got all I can find on Ellis from ancestry and my DNA. Weirdly enough that tree has been done by someone off my mother's side. The guy, a distant cousin, is a whizz on ancestry having taken my mother's father family right back to 1500 and something. 

[FROGSMILE]

30 minutes ago, Miss Jones said:

He was in, if this correct. 19th battalion. No: 28731 

That’s a great start.  There’s plenty of information on the story of the 19th Battalion in various sources, but finding a photo of him or an individual mention is statistically unlikely.  Men below the rank of commissioned officer were generally only mentioned in exceptional circumstances, although there were a few units that departed from that norm.  Here is just one source mentioning that battalion: 

 

Edited 5 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[sadbrewer]

1 minute ago, Miss Jones said:

Hi, yes it is him. I've got all I can find on Ellis from ancestry and my DNA. Weirdly enough that tree has been done by someone off my mother's side. The guy, a distant cousin, is a whizz on ancestry having taken my mother's father family right back to 1500 and something. 

 

Here's a start, he was wounded in service, from The casualty list published February 11th, 1919.

Courtesy of the British Newspaper Archive. 

 

 

[Miss Jones]

3 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

That’s a great start.  There’s plenty of information on the story of the 19th Battalion in various sources, but finding a photo of him or an individual mention is statistically unlikely.  Men below the rank of commissioned officer were generally only mentioned in exceptional circumstances, although there were a few units that departed from that norm.  Here is just one source mentioning that battalion: 

 

I have a copy of his papers like that but can't get it to up load. 

5 minutes ago, sadbrewer said:

 

Here's a start, he was wounded in service, from The casualty list published February 11th, 1919.

Courtesy of the British Newspaper Archive. 

 

 

Sad. His brother was KIA. Thanks for this. 

[FROGSMILE]

2 minutes ago, Miss Jones said:

I have a copy of his papers like that but can't get it to up load. 

There are some here who can advise you how to do that.

 

There are all kinds of sources regarding what the battalion did but unfortunately some have to be paid for to be accessed: https://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=7388

Edited 5 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Miss Jones]

3 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

There are some here who can advise you how to do that.

 

There are all kinds of sources regarding what the battalion did but unfortunately some have to be paid for to be accessed: https://www.wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/battalion.php?pid=7388

Thanks for the link. 

It's different uploading to Facebook than here. 

I have a photo if a Welsh fusilier, looks like my dad but I can't know it's him. He died however looks a bit like he's been hurt, holds his arm oddly. I do hope it's him. 

[Miss Jones]

I need to go now. Back late to see any new replies. 

Thanks all. 

[headgardener]

1 hour ago, Miss Jones said:

He was in, if this correct. 19th battalion. No: 28731

Sorry, only just seen your reply. Thank you. 

 

Where did this information come from? You mentioned that he was a POW. His name appears in the Red Cross archives in Geneva - he's on a list of men (dates 28.10.18) being held at a POW camp at Lamsdorf. He's listed as Pte Ellis Jones 245978, of 'B' company, 5th Durham Light Infantry, born at Pentraeth on 23.7.98, son of 'Hugh' (no further details or address). He was captured at Craonne on 27.5.18.

 

The fact his name appeared on that post-war Casualty list suggests that the first report that he had survived and was a prisoner was provided by the list of prisoners compiled on 28.10.15. Presumably his parents would have had no word of him since his capture on 27th May. 

[Miss Jones]

16 minutes ago, headgardener said:

 

Where did this information come from? You mentioned that he was a POW. His name appears in the Red Cross archives in Geneva - he's on a list of men (dates 28.10.18) being held at a POW camp at Lamsdorf. He's listed as Pte Ellis Jones 245978, of 'B' company, 5th Durham Light Infantry, born at Pentraeth on 23.7.98, son of 'Hugh' (no further details or address). He was captured at Craonne on 27.5.18.

 

The fact his name appeared on that post-war Casualty list suggests that the first report that he had survived and was a prisoner was provided by the list of prisoners compiled on 28.10.15. Presumably his parents would have had no word of him since his capture on 27th May. 

Hi, thanks for your answer. 

I'm on ancestry but couldn't find much. So some kind person went looking on findmypast for me. She said he was a Welsh fusilier. This isnt  correct is it? Light infantry and Welsh fusiliers are two different things yes? 

His father was Hugh, his mother Agnes. 

I've just 5 minutes ago found his war/pension record. Or parts of it. Seems he had a habit of being absent and having money taken from him as a fine of sorts. I can't servant details on being wounded or taken a POW. I wonder was his head messed up as many suffered so bad. 

Thanks so much for the information, it's helping me understand the person he was rather than just being a name. 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Was his home 'Bragdy', Pentraeth?

He appears along with Hugh Jones of the same address in the Anglesey Absent Voters Lists:

https://dyfedjames99.wixsite.com/hanes-star/absent-voters-lists-1919-21

His number though is given as 26805 Pte., C Co., 2/2nd Bn., R.W.F.

Edited 5 September , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[Miss Jones]

9 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Was his home 'Bragdy', Pentraeth?

He appears along with Hugh Jones of the same address in the Anglesey Absent Voters Lists:

https://dyfedjames99.wixsite.com/hanes-star/absent-voters-lists-1919-21

His number though is given as 26805 Pte., C Co., 2/2nd Bn., R.W.F.

Hi thanks for the reply. My tablet can't open the files. I'll have a go on my PC later tonight. Diolch. 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Croeso,

 

Edit;

Either the AVL (transcribed by myself), or CWGC or that Ancestry tree is wrong.

I have Hugh Jones, Bragdy on the 1918 AVL (presumably alive) as 22971 Pte., 4th Bn., S.W.B.

The tree has him dying in 1916 as 36833 in Machine Gun Corps.

That man according to CWGC was the " Son of Jane E. Jones, of 19, Augusta Place, Port Dinorwic, Carnarvonshire, and the late Hugh Jones."

 

Edit Edit,

Hugh Jones does not appear on the Pentraeth War Memorial

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Anglesey/Pentraeth.html

Edited 5 September , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[headgardener]

27 minutes ago, Miss Jones said:

Hi, thanks for your answer. 

I'm on ancestry but couldn't find much. So some kind person went looking on findmypast for me. She said he was a Welsh fusilier. This isnt  correct is it? Light infantry and Welsh fusiliers are two different things yes? 

His father was Hugh, his mother Agnes. 

I've just 5 minutes ago found his war/pension record. Or parts of it. Seems he had a habit of being absent and having money taken from him as a fine of sorts. I can't servant details on being wounded or taken a POW. I wonder was his head messed up as many suffered so bad. 

Thanks so much for the information, it's helping me understand the person he was rather than just being a name. 

 

Yes, the R Welsh Fusiliers is completely different to the Durham Light Infantry. 

 

Knowing that he was in B Co, 5/DLI on 27 May 1918 will help you find how he came to be captured. 

 

It would help a lot of you set out exactly what details you have in him, AND what documents you already have 

[sadbrewer]

1 hour ago, headgardener said:

 

Where did this information come from? You mentioned that he was a POW. His name appears in the Red Cross archives in Geneva - he's on a list of men (dates 28.10.18) being held at a POW camp at Lamsdorf. He's listed as Pte Ellis Jones 245978, of 'B' company, 5th Durham Light Infantry, born at Pentraeth on 23.7.98, son of 'Hugh' (no further details or address). He was captured at Craonne on 27.5.18.

 

The fact his name appeared on that post-war Casualty list suggests that the first report that he had survived and was a prisoner was provided by the list of prisoners compiled on 28.10.15. Presumably his parents would have had no word of him since his capture on 27th May. 

245978 DLI and 28731 RWF are the regiments and service numbers quoted on the service record on the Ancestry page.

 

 

Edited 5 September , 2020 by sadbrewer

[FROGSMILE]

Transferred at the infantry base depot after wounding, recovery, and returning to France I’ll wager. Yet another man caught up in the Germans’ spring offensive.

Edited 5 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE