1st East Anglian Field Ambulance (Walden's Point), Gallipoli, October 1915

[Guest]

Hi,

 

This is my first post on the GWF, and I'm hoping that the helpful folk from this forum can assist with my numerous questions.

 

My wife and I are currently researching her grandfather's (Frank Gustaf Carlsson, regimental number 618) involvement in WW1.  He served with the 26th Australian Infantry Battalion, 7th Australian Infantry Brigade, AIF.  He was an original of A Coy, No.2 Platoon (No.6 Section) and landed at Gallipoli on 12 September 1915. 

 

His Brigade was detached from the 2nd Australian Division and attached to Godley's New Zealand & Australian Division.  The 26th Bn was held in reserve at Taylor's Hollow near Bauchop's Hill (in the northern part of the Anzac theatre of war).

 

His stay on the Peninsula was brief; only six weeks after landing, he had influenza which was eventually diagnosed as enteric fever (a type of typhoid). 

 

According to his war service record (a digitised version is held by the National Archives of Australia), he was initially admitted to the 1st East Anglian Field Ambulance on 20 October 1915.  That same day, he was admitted to the 1st Australian Casualty Clearing Station, located at Anzac Cove (about 2-3 miles from Taylor's Hollow).  The following day, his condition must have worsened as he was put on board the hospital ship, Nevasa, and transported to St Andrews Hospital in Malta (27 October 1915).

 

My questions are:

 

1) Does someone know how the sick parade was organised?  My understanding is that there were two parades in the morning; one for a roll call and the other to ask if anyone was sick.  If you said you were sick, I'm assuming your platoon commander/sergeant would ask you to make your way to the Bn Medical Officer for a quick examination.  If the Officer could see you were sick, I suppose they asked you to make your way to the nearest Field Ambulance. 

 

2) Was the 1st East Anglian Field Ambulance (EAFA) another name for the 1st/3rd East Anglian Field Ambulance?  I believe the EAFA medical unit was located at Walden's Point from August 1915.  I also believe they were part of the 54th British Division, which also operated near the Anzac area.  Frank was the only one from his Coy to be admitted to a British Field Ambulance.  Everyone else who became sick or wounded were admitted to an Australian medical unit.  However, a few men from C and D Companies were admitted to the EAFA. 

 

3) Did the EAFA share the same hill / location as the 7th Australian Field Ambulance (A Section) at Walden's Point?  The A Section moved to the location on 14 September 1915, having taken over the area from the 4th Australian Field Ambulance. 

 

4) Assuming Frank's dugout / bivouac was located at Taylor's Hollow, how many miles/kms was this area from Walden's Point?

 

 

I know these are very specific questions, and I may not receive the answers I seek.  But I thought I'd give it a go anyway.

 

Regards,

 

Jay.

[PRC]

5 hours ago, jay26thBn said:

Was the 1st East Anglian Field Ambulance (EAFA) another name for the 1st/3rd East Anglian Field Ambulance? 

 

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

The 54th (East Anglian) Division had three Field Ambulances attached. Those at Gallipoli were the 2nd East Anglian Field Ambulance, the 3rd East Anglian Field Ambulance and the 2/1st East Anglian Field Ambulance, (the original 1st East Anglian Field Ambulance went to the 29th Division in January 1915 and as the 88th Field Ambulance was also at Gallipolli but at Cape Helles).

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/54th-east-anglian-division/

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/29th-division/

 

Unfortunately I don't know their locations at the time you are interested in and online versions of the war diaries of each of those field ambulances will only be available on Ancestry.

 

Hopefully others will be along shortly with a far better understanding of the geography of the area and a much better understanding of what was where

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Guest]

thanks Peter.  

[David26]

Jay,

 

it looks as if the three East Anglian Field Ambulances were located as follows on 20 Oct 1915: 

 

2/1 - at No.2 Post, ANZAC 

1/2 - at Azmak Dere, ANZAC

1/3 - at at Aghil Dere, ANZAC.

 

Curiously on 31 Oct 1915 they then all shuffled round with 1/3 taking over the location of 1/2, 1/2 taking over the location of 2/1, and 2/1 taking over the location of 1/3.  

 

As Peter has pointed out, the first number in their unit title is simply whether it was the 1st Line or 2nd Line unit, with the second number being the unit number, so if your wife's grandfather was admitted to "1st East Anglian Field Ambulance", I believe that that refers to 2/1 East Anglian Field Ambulance, so he would have gone to No.2 Post, ANZAC.

 

David.

Edited 5 September , 2020 by David26
typo

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, David26 said:

As Peter has pointed out, the first number in their unit title is simply whether it was the 1st Line or 2nd Line unit, with the second number being the unit number, so if your wife's grandfather was admitted to "1st East Anglian Field Ambulance", I believe that that refers to 2/1 East Anglian Field Ambulance, so he would have gone to No.2 Post, ANZAC.

 

 

Thanks David.

 

It makes more sense that it was the 2/1 EAFA at No.2 Post, seeing that it was a bit closer to the 1st Australian Casualty Clearing Station than the 1/3 EAFA (Walden's Point, Aghyl Dere).

 

Looking at the old Anzac maps, it appears that Walden's Point was 'just around the corner' from Taylor's Hollow, about a few hundred metres or so.  

 

We know that Frank was detached from his unit (discovered as a notation in the nominal/muster roll for A Coy, 26th Bn, Sep 1915, held by the AWM), for some special duty in late September 1915, so he may have been quartered close to No.2 Post, which also happened to be near the NZ&A HQ and the 16th British Casualty Clearing Station. 

[David26]

Jay,

 

Glad to help.  And you may notice that (thanks to Peter's sharp eyes) I've corrected a typo in my previous post about which Field Ambulance relieved which, though that of course doesn't change the essential fact that in all likelihood Frank went briefly to 2/1 EAFA at No.2 Post.

 

David.

[Guest]

Hi all,

 

In my initial post, I had asked four questions.  Thanks to the responses from David and Peter, and a review of old Anzac maps, I know have clearer idea of how many EAFA's were operating in the Anzac theatre of war and their locations.  So I've pretty much answered questions 2, 3 and 4.  

 

I now turn to question 1, as this will probably indicate where Frank had his dugout.  

 

"1) Does someone know how the sick parade was organised?  My understanding is that there were two parades in the morning; one for a roll call and the other to ask if anyone was sick.  If you said you were sick, I'm assuming your platoon commander/sergeant would ask you to make your way to the Bn Medical Officer for a quick examination.  If the Officer could see you were sick, I suppose they asked you to make your way to the nearest Field Ambulance. "

 

I should rephrase the question, and perhaps this is more aptly directed to those with experience in AIF matters, although I suspect the AIF followed the British Army model when it came to administrative and operational procedures:

 

Qu: From the experience of Forum member's who have may have come across references to sick parades in personal letters/diaries/blogs etc, was a soldier required to go to a Field Ambulance that was near their dugout/bivouac if they were sick?

 

Again, this question may be a "bridge too far", but I would not sleep well at night knowing that I should have asked it.

 

Jay.

[Auimfo]

Sorry Jay but I'm a few months late seeing your post.  Hopefully you'll see this reply and it might assist you.

In relation to the location of the EAFA, my Grandfather was in the 4th Field Ambulance and kept a daily diary throughout the war.  He was with his unit when it set up the first field ambulance site at Walden Point in August 1915.  Interestingly, he never knew the location by that name during his first stint there.   It was only at the beginning of November, once they'd returned from their break at Lemnos that he began calling it 'Waldon Grove'.  

Anyway, back to the EAFA.  On the 12th September, just two days before the 4th FAmb left for Lemnos, my Grandfather recorded in his diary,

Cheers,

Tim.

Edited 2 July , 2021 by Auimfo

[Guest]

Hi Tim / @Auimfo

Jeff Pickerd alerted me to your reply, as I hardly visit the GWF site these days.  I tend to rely on my own research, as the GWF members are predominately British based and have little knowledge of AIF matters.  

Your snippet from your GF's diary confirms my understanding that the 4th Australian Field Ambulance was located next to the 1/3 East Anglian Field Ambulance, at Walden's Point during August/September 1915.  I believe the 4th FA was attached to Monash's 4th Aus Infantry Bde, so when Monash et el left the Peninsula for Mudros (for a rest) during early September 1915, the Field Ambulance vacated the area as well.  The location was then used by A Section of the 7th Australian Field Ambulance, attached to the 7th Australian Infantry Brigade.  That is why there is a cemetery at the location named after the 7th Field Ambulance.

As for my wife's GF being admitted to the 2/1 EAFA, I believe this was an error made by the admin clerk during 1915.  I firmly believe, using records such as Field Returns/personal letters of other soldiers/etc, that my GF in law was located near Hell Spit in Oct 1915, and was admitted to the 3rd Australian Field Ambulance.  He was in the No.1 Beach Party of the 26th Bn, and it was unlikely he was near the No.2 Outpost where the 2/1 EAFA were located.

Regards,

Jay

PS for those not familiar with the northern sector of the Anzac sphere of operations, Walden's Point was "round the corner" from Taylor's Hollow, the camp area for  26th AI Bn.  Taylor's Hollow was near Bauchop's Hill.  The New Zealand 4th Howitzer Field Battery were also located at Taylor's Hollow. @Kiwi Bob

 

 

Edited 9 July , 2021 by Guest

[Guest]

I found the following entry in the War Diary of the Assistant Director of Medical Services, 54th (East Anglian) Division, September 1915, page 5, (ancestry, WO 95/4324).

"4 September 1915: The 1st East Anglian Field Ambulance arrived and took up position near the 16th British Casualty Clearing Station at No.2 Post to assist in evacuating the sick.  Each Field Ambulance sends up an advanced dressing station to its Brigade in the trenches."  

The 54th (East Anglian) Division's Ammunition Park (not the column) also moved to No. 2 Post on 7 September 1915:

Divisional Ammunition Park, 54th (East Anglian) Division, War Diary, September 1915, page 18, (ancestry, WO 95/4324). "Received orders to move PARK to No.2 Outpost on Anzac Beach vacated by 13th Division."

Other units located near No. 2 Post during September 1915 were:

- General Staff, NZ & A Division (12-20 September 1915),

- DAQMG, NZ & A Division 

- Divisional Artillery HQ, NZ & A Division

- CRE, NZ & A Division

- Divisional Signal Company, NZ & A Division

- 71st Field Company Royal Engineers, 13th (Western) Division, (12-16 September 1915).  This unit was temporarily attached to the NZ & A Division until 16 Sep 1915.

There may be more; these are the ones I've discovered so far.

The AWM has several photos of the location.  I've attached two.

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1229121

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/A02027?image=1

Edited 22 August , 2021 by Guest
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