garfyboy Posted 4 September , 2020 Share Posted 4 September , 2020 Hi folks This may be impossible but i have to try, i have a George V 1st type MM that has been erased but there are some details remaining, is there any chance of finding the recipient through these minimal detail ?? NUMBER - 1 ? ? 5 RANK - SJT NAME - REG - 5 ???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 4 September , 2020 Share Posted 4 September , 2020 There are some methods for revealing erased numbers involving acid and an electric current but this may damage the medal. If you have a camera with a macro setting you could take a close up photograph of the rim, post it and see if any of the forum pals can identify more of the missing details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfyboy Posted 4 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2020 Thanks bill I’m afraid I don’t have a macro setting, I have tried to take close ups but to no avail, there are a couple of letters visible in the name, I will try again but I don’t hold out much hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 4 September , 2020 Share Posted 4 September , 2020 (edited) Try very lightly tracing onto a piece of paper along the rim of the medal. I tried doing a couple of wildcard searches of the ww1 medal database on TNA's website, but no hits for an MM MIC. Maybe you're misreading one of the digits? Edited 4 September , 2020 by headgardener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 6 September , 2020 Share Posted 6 September , 2020 If you're absolutely certain that the service number is confined to four digits, beginning with 1, ending with 5, the only one of the British recipients that fits, that I could see would be: 1415 Sergeant William Albert Prior, MM and Bar, 5 Field Ambulance, Royal Army Medical Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 6 September , 2020 Share Posted 6 September , 2020 51 minutes ago, Nigel Marshall said: If you're absolutely certain that the service number is confined to four digits, beginning with 1, ending with 5, the only one of the British recipients that fits, that I could see would be: 1415 Sergeant William Albert Prior, MM and Bar, 5 Field Ambulance, Royal Army Medical Corps. I think more info from the OP is necessary. I came across Prior when I did some wildcard searches (mentioned earlier in this thread). There are 2 problems with linking him to this partially erased MM. The first is that the initial award was issued to him as "Pte" so this is what should appear on the medal. The bar appears to have been officially issued as "Pte (a/Sgt)", but this wouldn't appear on the medal, only in the LG. Also, Prior's MM MIC shows "Sgt." so (in theory at least) the rank on the medal *should* read the same as the one listed on the card. The OP records it as "Sjt.", so this is how should appear on the MM MIC. So, for those reasons, I'm sceptical that it's Prior's MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfyboy Posted 7 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2020 On 06/09/2020 at 16:06, Nigel Marshall said: If you're absolutely certain that the service number is confined to four digits, beginning with 1, ending with 5, the only one of the British recipients that fits, that I could see would be: 1415 Sergeant William Albert Prior, MM and Bar, 5 Field Ambulance, Royal Army Medical Corps. Apologies for the late reply (family emergency) Firstly, many thanks for your research, great work, i have just spent some time under a glass and i am not certain there are only 4 digits but i can see 1??5 i cannot be certain but it could be 1445 then SJT then possibly a A then a totally erased letter or two and then another A and what looks like GGT, so possibly So possibly A. ??AGGT?? I know its vague, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfyboy Posted 7 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2020 Here is a pic ive just taken, so you can see the numbers to the left then SJT (not good to see at this angle) and then some of the name as described in earlier quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfyboy Posted 7 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 7 September , 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 7 September , 2020 Share Posted 7 September , 2020 Based on those photos, and without getting a really clear view of the partially erased number, I wonder whether it could be 14295 Sjt. J. G. MADDISON 5/YORKS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14276265 Posted 7 September , 2020 Share Posted 7 September , 2020 It may just be an illusion, but the letters and numbers do not appear to be stamped or impressed at the same level - the bottom of the 5 appears to be lower than the SJ. Likewise letters in the name. Might it be that the medal is a fake blank, which has been stamped and then erased leaving a few tempting clues, to give a degree of plausibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfyboy Posted 8 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2020 That could be a possibility, I’m not sure if there is room for 3 numbers between the 1 and the 5, the two ‘GG’ could certainly be ‘DD’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfyboy Posted 8 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2020 6 hours ago, 14276265 said: It may just be an illusion, but the letters and numbers do not appear to be stamped or impressed at the same level - the bottom of the 5 appears to be lower than the SJ. Likewise letters in the name. Might it be that the medal is a fake blank, which has been stamped and then erased leaving a few tempting clues, to give a degree of plausibility? Thank and Yes I agree , that does look to be the case and I have looked at other medals and also Williamson’s book and this doesn’t seem unusual, I have enclosed a couple of images from the book, one thing for certain is that this is a original medal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 8 September , 2020 Share Posted 8 September , 2020 Am I seeing square letters after the DD. Like WADDELL or similar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfyboy Posted 8 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2020 4 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said: Am I seeing square letters after the DD. Like WADDELL or similar? Yes, I would say three square letters after the DD / GG first one being a T or a E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 8 September , 2020 Share Posted 8 September , 2020 (edited) I did some pretty broad wildcard searches of the MIC's (using '*ADD*' and '1*5' and 'serjeant' - or 'sergeant' in case the spelling was mistranscribed by TNA) and there are only 4 hits with MM's, and only one of which had a regiment beginning with the number '5', which is MADDISON as listed above). If you want to get to the bottom of it, I'd suggest either taking clear photographs of each part of the details around the rim - preferably using a magnifying glass - and confirm whether you're certain that the letters you can read are '1**5' + 'Sjt' + '*ADD****+' and regiment starting with '5'. If you're certain that's what you're seeing then the possible list of recipients is very very limited. Edited 8 September , 2020 by headgardener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfyboy Posted 8 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2020 Thanks head gardener, you’ve done a great job, I have a zoom function on my phone, when I’m home later I will try taking some images with that as a last try Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 8 September , 2020 Share Posted 8 September , 2020 A suggestion; try getting your shots in focus, then try blowing up the images rather than trying to get in close and ending up with unfocussed images. Take 1 or 2 shots each of the number, rank, initials, surname and regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfyboy Posted 8 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2020 Nice one, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 8 September , 2020 Share Posted 8 September , 2020 Hi Another suggestion regarding taking a picture of the rim, I always place the medal flat on the edge of a work surface with the rim just slightly hanging over. then get down parallel with it for your photo. This gives a better chance of getting the engraving/stamping crisp. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfyboy Posted 8 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 8 September , 2020 Thanks steve, I’ve just Done that, photos added That’s the best I can get photo wise, I understand it may be a impossible task but it has to be worth one last go, appreciate everyone’s efforts andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 8 September , 2020 Share Posted 8 September , 2020 I'll post the short list I compiled earlier, see what everyone thinks. Am out atm though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Anderson Posted 8 September , 2020 Share Posted 8 September , 2020 (edited) I think that is a good an image as we'll get. Someone definitely tried to make it illegible. Additional marks have been made. Edited 8 September , 2020 by Ivor Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14276265 Posted 8 September , 2020 Share Posted 8 September , 2020 (edited) How about 1765 William Daggett, MM? MIC courtesy via Ancestry: Edited 8 September , 2020 by 14276265 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 8 September , 2020 Share Posted 8 September , 2020 12 minutes ago, 14276265 said: How about 1765 William Daggett, MM? Looks very good. Was he 5th battalion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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