Leutnant Karl von Huber-Liebenau, 1890-1914, died as POW in Ypres

[AOK4]

Hello,

 

Thanks to forum member stiletto_33853, I received some very interesting information concerning German POWs. While browsing these files, I happened to see an interesting name, the active officer Leutnant Karl von Huber-Liebenau, born in Nürnberg 2 April 1890 and DOW as POW on 22 October 1914. He was an officer in 2. Eskadron of 1. Bayerisches Chevaulegers-Regiment and was captured on 21 October 1914 near America, which is on the road from Wervik to Kruiseke. I know from the regimental history that he was captured while on a patrol towards the British positions near Blegnaert Farm (trench map coordinates 28.P on the border of squares 11 and 12). That would have most probably put the 20th Infantry Brigade on the other side.

He was shot through the neck and two Chevaulegers died while trying to reach him. They had to give up trying to get to von Huber-Liebenau and our Leutnant was picked up by the British and evacuated to a field ambulance (in or near Ypres) where he died on 22 October 1914. He was buried "at Ypres" and his effects were sent to the family.

 

The extract is from List No. XII (12 December 1914) of Particulars and Effects of german Dead, found on the Field of Battle by British Troops in France.

 

He is listed in the Red Cross archives: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/152680/1/2/

 

His entries in the Verlustliste: http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/971440 and http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1370946

 

However, when trying to look for his grave, I found that he is listed on the panels at the Kameradengrab in Langemark. I am very familiar with German cemeteries, so that is why I know he is most probably not buried there, he is just commemarted there (a bit the counterpart of the Menin Gate).

 

My question now is: where was he buried in 1914 by the British? Would anyone know in which field ambulance he died? Or could anyone point me towards any possible leads?

 

Thanks in advance,

Jan

[AOK4]

Having done some more research in the meantime, I have found that the man may have died in Field Ambulance 21 and was probably buried in Ypres Town Cemetery. I also found a notification that according to a proces verbal dated 10 May 1935 one German grave was exhumed from the Ypres Communal cemetery and reburied in German cemetery Broodseinde. Grave reference is given as "Grab N1 Cem. Com. Ypres").

 

I couldn't find a reference like that immediately in the Grave Registration Report Forms on the CWGC website.

 

Jan

 

[Guest]

   Still a bit of doubt about this.  CWGC records 18 British casualties on 22nd August 1914. Several are on the La Ferte Memorial-that is, graves are lost. Only one, a soldier of the Connaught Rangers is buried with a known grave- and that is at Athis-Mons  Communal Cemetery.

    I have a local casualty with a similar situation to yours- he was badly wounded and left on 24th August, when his column of Field Artillery was shot at by an advancing German infantry column. He died in the German lines at a Feldlazarett-No2 set up at Obourg, now a suburb of Mons when the Germans occupied the place. He and 2 other "Died of Wounds" were buried by the German Military  in the local churchyard. The graves could not be located at the end of the war and the men are now commemorated on a special memorial at St Symphorien- which is where most of British and German dead from Mons actually are.

   The German practice early in the war was to bury men in consecrated ground.Thus,despite battlefield clearance after 24th August 1914, graves already on consecrated ground were left as they were.  Thus, it is highly likely that your man in the one from Ypres  Communal.

   There may be some reward in trying to trace where the 2 Other Ranks killed with him were buried,if that may give another clue.

One small point that has bothered me is whether those British or German who were buried in consecrated ground were officially recorded in the local cemetery registers, But a contact with the town authorities in Ypres should answer that.

Good luck in your endeavours- 

[AOK4]

   Still a bit of doubt about this.  CWGC records 18 British casualties on 22nd August 1914. Several are on the La Ferte Memorial-that is, graves are lost. Only one, a soldier of the Connaught Rangers is buried with a known grave- and that is at Athis-Mons  Communal Cemetery.

    I have a local casualty with a similar situation to yours- he was badly wounded and left on 24th August, when his column of Field Artillery was shot at by an advancing German infantry column. He died in the German lines at a Feldlazarett-No2 set up at Obourg, now a suburb of Mons when the Germans occupied the place. He and 2 other "Died of Wounds" were buried by the German Military  in the local churchyard. The graves could not be located at the end of the war and the men are now commemorated on a special memorial at St Symphorien- which is where most of British and German dead from Mons actually are.

   The German practice early in the war was to bury men in consecrated ground.Thus,despite battlefield clearance after 24th August 1914, graves already on consecrated ground were left as they were.  Thus, it is highly likely that your man in the one from Ypres  Communal.

   There may be some reward in trying to trace where the 2 Other Ranks killed with him were buried,if that may give another clue.

One small point that has bothered me is whether those British or German who were buried in consecrated ground were officially recorded in the local cemetery registers, But a contact with the town authorities in Ypres should answer that.

Good luck in your endeavours- 

I'll have a look into your problem, as I know quite a bit about German cemeteries and hospitals. Anyway, my man was buried by the British and he died on 22 October 1914, not August.

[GreyC]

Hi Jan,

why not contact the Volksbund, who has listed him as buried in a Kameradengrab at Langemark, as you write. So, they should have records of some kind. In a memorial plaque placed in 1922 at the cemetery of St. Johannis in Nurnberg he is listed as buried in Langemark.

http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/2013/st.-johannis_stadt.nuernberg_kirche_cheveaulegers_mittelfranken_bay.html

GreyC

PS: As he was Bavarian, his Stammrolleneintrag should be accessible via ancestry.

Edited 3 September , 2020 by GreyC

[AOK4]

29 minutes ago, GreyC said:

Hi Jan,

why not contact the Volksbund, who has listed him as buried in a Kameradengrab at Langemark, as you write. So, they should have records of some kind. In a memorial plaque placed in 1922 at the cemetery of St. Johannis in Nurnberg he is listed as buried in Langemark.

http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/2013/st.-johannis_stadt.nuernberg_kirche_cheveaulegers_mittelfranken_bay.html

GreyC

PS: As he was Bavarian, his Stammrolleneintrag should be accessible via ancestry.

GreyC,

 

I have checked his Kriegsranglisteneintrag. Contacting the VDK is an option but getting an answer may take very long.

He is COMMEMORATED on the panels in Langemark, that doesn't mean he is buried there (it's quite complicated to explain, the explanation is due for my next book on German cemeteries).

As the man was buried by the British, I was hoping to get a quicker answer via British sources. Another option may be the Ieper city archives or the Belgian Army Museum documentation center (where they hold most of the archives concerning German cemeteries in Belgium from 1914 until 1934). Unfortunately, British military unit diaries are nowhere near as good as German ones. A lot of the German war diaries of hospitals and stretcher bearer companies I have used are extremely more detailed than any British I have checked. A lot of the German diaries note who has died (also enemies) and where he was buried... I don't have to explain that if it would have been a Papierkrieg, the Germans would have won easily.

 

Jan

 

 

 

Edited 3 September , 2020 by AOK4

[GreyC]

Hi Jan,

usually the Volksbund distinguishes in their texts between buried and commemorated on their grave-info site. If he were only commemorated they would have written that. But they explicitly wrote "begraben". So I´d rhink contacting might yield results.

Good luck with your research.

GreyC

By the way, i´d agree with the Papierkrieg statement!

[AOK4]

26 minutes ago, GreyC said:

Hi Jan,

usually the Volksbund distinguishes in their texts between buried and commemorated on their grave-info site. If he were only commemorated they would have written that. But they explicitly wrote "begraben". So I´d rhink contacting might yield results.

Good luck with your research.

GreyC

By the way, i´d agree with the Papierkrieg statement!

 

Believe me, they don't make the difference. I've studied a lot of the names there so I know very well.

 

[GreyC]

ok, you´re the expert.

GreyC