John McGregor/MacGregor, Lovat Scouts

[NeilM]

Hi.  I'm looking for any info about my grandfather, John MacGregor 1891-1980 (possibly spelt McGregor in those days) from Caithness in the Highlands.  He died before I was born and all I know about him is he served with the Lovat Scouts as a mounted solder, possibly as a messenger/dispatch rider.  I still have his spurs, belt and leather pouch.  It would be great to know more about his exploits but alas my family know very little.  He was apparently as reluctant as most of his generation were to discuss the war.

 

I do appreciate that records may not have survived the blitz but if anyone has any information on him or where I should look, or the Lovat Scouts in general during the war, I'd be grateful to hear from you.  In particular, I'm curious as to how he would have come to join the Lovats.  I assumed the vast majority of soldiers from this part of the world would have been in the Seaforths?  

 

 

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Hi Neil.

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

For background on the Lovat Scouts' service during the war see:

 

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-yeomanry-regiments-of-1914-1918/1st-lovats-scouts-yeomanry/

 

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-yeomanry-regiments-of-1914-1918/2nd-lovats-scouts-yeomanry/

 

The above links are to pages of the Long Long Trail the mother site of this Forum - the Blue banner at the top of this page.

 

There is also some info on the Regiment in general here:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20071014174659/http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/volmil-scotland/vcav/lovat.htm

 

Dave

Edited 2 September , 2020 by HERITAGE PLUS

[rolt968]

Do the belt and/or pouch have his serial number on them?

RM

[HERITAGE PLUS]

Did John have a middle name?

 

Dave

[NeilM]

No middle name, he was just John MacGregor.  As I mentioned, there may have been a spelling of McGregor, it seemed to be a bit random over the years, going by various other documents I have.

 

Alas there isn't any numbering or any other markings on any of the leather or stirrups.

 

I appreciate the help and info so far though, thanks.  I've discovered on the Long Long Trail site that F Squadron was recruited from this area.  I do have a picture somewhere of him with his horse, I'll dig it out to see if there are any clues it could give.

[Tom Lang]

1 hour ago, NeilM said:

Hi.  I'm looking for any info about my grandfather, John MacGregor 1891-1980 (possibly spelt McGregor in those days) from Caithness in the Highlands.  He died before I was born and all I know about him is he served with the Lovat Scouts as a mounted solder, possibly as a messenger/dispatch rider.  I still have his spurs, belt and leather pouch.  It would be great to know more about his exploits but alas my family know very little.  He was apparently as reluctant as most of his generation were to discuss the war.

 

I do appreciate that records may not have survived the blitz but if anyone has any information on him or where I should look, or the Lovat Scouts in general during the war, I'd be grateful to hear from you.  In particular, I'm curious as to how he would have come to join the Lovats.  I assumed the vast majority of soldiers from this part of the world would have been in the Seaforths?  

 

 

Hello Neil,

On the ScotlandsPeople website there is a "John McGregor" born at Latheron, Caithness, in 1891.

Kindest Regards,

Tom Lang.

[NeilM]

Found him, thanks!

 

*I meant to say spurs not stirrups earlier lol

[headgardener]

My mum's family were from Latheron (her father was in the Seaforth 1916 - 19), I used to spend time up there when I was a kid and remember meeting several old boys who were in the war. Maybe John was one of them...? 

 

Lovat's Scouts formed a battalion of the Cameron Highlanders in 1917 so, in case you're looking for his MIC, he may have ended up a Cameron. 

[Matlock1418]

On 02/09/2020 at 14:18, NeilM said:

all I know about him is he served with the Lovat Scouts as a mounted solder, possibly as a messenger/dispatch rider.  I still have his spurs, belt and leather pouch. 

 

23 hours ago, NeilM said:

I do have a picture somewhere of him with his horse, I'll dig it out to see if there are any clues it could give.

Hi Neil,

Welcome to GWF.

It's always exciting to hunt down a relative's war history so good luck with your quest for your GF

Hope you don't mind but may I first please ask a couple of questions:

= Where did you get your information from?

= Do you think he was an officer? Or a ranker?

= Do you have any other possible military details?

Provenance may be important

I also ask because for me the spurs are probably the most puzzling kit for me.

An officer - ok, may have been mounted sometime and needed spurs

Other Ranks = a puzzle as to me for infantry [unless perhaps an officer's batman and rode his horse occasionally???  Horse mounted despatch riding seems unusual to me] and seems rather more likely Cavalry or Royal Artillery (RHA/RFA/RGA) equipment - and perhaps rather less likely Royal Engineers (Signal Company - cable reel carts - mounted/seated?), Army Service Corps [GS wagon driver], RAMC (Field Ambulance - ambulance driver) [though feel all these later three roles were probably more often seated upon the cart/wagon/ambulance than upon a horse]

The leather pouch chimes a bit unusually for me too.

I am not a uniform or equipment expert by any great imagination [and may be well off the mark!] - but there are plenty of those on GWF who know a very great amount and are more likely to come along if you can post a photo [or few] please

Of him & horse, and close-ups of spurs, belt and pouch too would be very helpful - Photo(s) would really help us all.

Especially if we can clearly see a cap badge! Enlarged image if you can.

Plenty of GWF pals willing and able to help you, but we probably do need a bit more to go on

If you are prepared to share them then his family details (names and addresses, dates etc.) may assist too [this is not a genealogy site but a few snippets often do help find the right man - and there do seem to be quite a few John McGregor/Macgregor floating around if I may say so - his 1891-1980 dates will be likely to help others more skilled than me].

Good luck & best wishes 

:-) M

Edited 3 September , 2020 by Matlock1418
Typo

[Ron Abbott]

There were men/a man called John MacGregor in the Lovat Scouts with regimental service number 3001, 126658 and 225495.

 

I don't presently have a paid subscription with FMP or Ancestry so can't see more, but you could try starting with these.

 

However I note that 126658 was awarded the DCM -

 

"D. C. M. 126658. Pte. J. MacGregor, Lovat's Scouts, (Bonar Bridge). For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. During the enemy attack, when all communication with an important observation post was cut, he volunteered and succeeded in reaching the post through an intense barrage, carrying forward two pigeons with him. He was thus able to send back information as to the general situation and the hostile positions. He displayed marked gallantry and determination."

 

From this document -

 

http://archives.ubalt.edu/acgs/pdf/1919.pdf

[Matlock1418]

9 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

There were men/a man called John MacGregor in the Lovat Scouts with regimental service number 3001, 126658 and 225495.

The MIC for Macgregor 3001 LS shows he also served as 225495 with the Cameron Highlanders however CWGC commemorate 225495 CS as died 23 Feb 1918 - Given the OP gave dates  of 1891-1980 this seems an unlikely candidate

Macgregor 126658 has a DCM MIC and London Gazette entry but is otherwise proving rather more elusive

The likely problem is that John McGregor/Macgregor [surname variation doesn't help!] need not necessarily have only served with the LS [even if this is confirmed as 100%] and could potentially have joined another regiment [as the first example above illustrates] and thus without another lead the field is much, much wider.

:-/ M

[NeilM]

Thanks for all your replies, I’m just getting caught up but here are some pictures of what I have. Someone mentioned a cap badge, I did find a Lovat Scouts cap badge previously but don’t have it to hand. I will find it eventually though. Meanwhile, here are some photos. 

[NeilM]

On 02/09/2020 at 17:08, headgardener said:

My mum's family were from Latheron (her father was in the Seaforth 1916 - 19), I used to spend time up there when I was a kid and remember meeting several old boys who were in the war. Maybe John was one of them...? 

 

Lovat's Scouts formed a battalion of the Cameron Highlanders in 1917 so, in case you're looking for his MIC, he may have ended up a Cameron. 

Yes you may well have met him! He was the local postman before and after his war service and also owned and ran the local shop in Latheron. A well known character. 
 

Born 16/10/1891

Died 22/01/1980

[headgardener]

I would have been there as a little boy in the 1960s. The postman then was Donnie Bremner. The shop in Latheron was called McGregor's wasn't it? Was there a Jessie McGregor who worked there? [EDIT: actually, I think it was Jessie Criss or something similar] 

Edited 4 September , 2020 by headgardener

[NeilM]

Yes that's right, my grandparents ran the shop, which was next door to Latheron post office.

 

By the 1960's my grandfather would either have retired as postman, or taken over the Houstry post route.

 

Jessie was John's aunt. She had lived in Badryrie, the very rural part of Latheron parish, before moving down to Latheron itself.  Apparently a very formidable woman, she was infamous for illicitly distilling whisky in her croft house, much to the consternation of the local customs and excise officer.  The pot still she used is still hidden somewhere out in the countryside.

[headgardener]

I do remember her, I used to be sent to get the messages from the shop. Our family certainly knew her and must have known your grandfather. I think we lived in Mid-Clyth, our family was Robertson (which wasn't a common name there). My gran was a local Councillor. 

[NeilM]

That's excellent! Small world eh! John's nephew Francis (known as Franco) farmed at Clyth Mains, I think. Alas, he also had died before I was born but apparently another great character.

[Matlock1418]

7 hours ago, NeilM said:

Meanwhile, here are some photos. 

The photos are likely to be most useful - thanks for posting.

I especially liked the great mounted photo. :-)  :-)  - Does the rear perhaps give a date or a clue as to where it was taken?

At risk of showing up my very considerable lack of depth of knowledge on Scottish regiments this certainly looks rather like Yeomanry with leather pouches and the circular collar badge rather like a Lovat's :-/

Again tempting fate - His puttees do rather look to me to have been wound infantry style [bottom to top] rather than cavalry or artillery style [top to bottom]

Was more familiar with the later war sharpshooter / sniper aspects of the Lovat's rather than mounted, but having now done a quick web browse it seems that pre- & early war then mounted was also a possibility.

Was rather expecting GWF pal 'Frogsmile' and his encyclopedic knowledge to have commented by now [which of course will knock my tiny bit into a cocked hat ;-/] so hope he will come soon to your aid.

Still struggling on to try and find 'your' John McGregor/MacGregor ... but ???

Did he perhaps transfer elsewhere = ?????

[Now that could be a $$$ question, if we could just answer it! - it is not at all unknown for old soldiers, past and more recent, to always refer to their first love and to significantly, and unfortunately, 'forget' about later ones, especially if they might perhaps be perceived as less worthy - many a CWGC headstone seems inscribed with an early infantry regiment, and not the one the man died with e.g. later and/or in the the Labour Corps etc. - there may be a number of reasons for this and I'm not seeking to hijack your thread on this particular headstone question, but just airing a possibility about possible other service not being mentioned].

:-) M

 

Edited 4 September , 2020 by Matlock1418
punctuation & addition

[NeilM]

Thanks for you comments.

I’ve never heard any mention of his being transferred but that’s not to say he wasn’t. All I’ve ever been told is that he was with the LS and was a dispatch/line of communication rider. Alas, there aren’t many people left who knew him well but I’ll be asking them if they can remember any details from his life. 
 

Unfortunately there’s no info on the back of the picture. 

[headgardener]

I think the Lovat Scouts supplied a small troop employed on LoC in France (and possibly also as snipers, or so I've heard), otherwise the active service element of the regiment was deployed as infantry in Gallipoli and Salonika and France (but that was as a battalion of the Cameron Highrs). 

Edited 6 September , 2020 by headgardener

[NeilM]

I think I read that in the wee bit of research I’ve done this week. The plot remains as thick as ever! I’ll ask around in the local area, see if anyone has any memories of him.