DuncanBro Posted 28 August , 2020 Share Posted 28 August , 2020 I got the Discharge Certificate for Corporal 40004 William McKillop, Royal Scots Fusiliers. It clearly says Overseas Active Service 1915-1916 for which he got two overseas chevrons. Got his MIC and rolls though and he's not entitled to the 1914/15 Star. Odd that such an important document would get that wrong! It also says he enlisted December 1914, but if only awarded the BWM/Victory pair didn't go overseas until 1916. So he enlisted then spent all of 1915 waiting to go overseas, isn't that a bit odd? Some advice would be really appreciated. Cheers Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsmith Posted 28 August , 2020 Share Posted 28 August , 2020 I took a random look at some of the men on the same page on the Medal Roll and none of them qualified for the Star, so administrative error can't be the explanation. Maybe they transferred from a home based unit and were sent abroad to serve with the 6/7th after 31/12/1915. A search to see if any of the men with close service numbers has a surviving service record might shed some more light on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 28 August , 2020 Share Posted 28 August , 2020 The entry '1915-1916' doesn't look contemporaneous to the other entries to my eyes. Different handwriting, different ink to the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanBro Posted 28 August , 2020 Author Share Posted 28 August , 2020 Thank you. I thought maybe there was a separate MIC for the Star, but apparently not. Yes, the 1915-1916 bit is deferent handwriting and ink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 28 August , 2020 Share Posted 28 August , 2020 It wouldn't be hard to serve overseas in 1915 without qualifying for a 15 star - plenty of men in India did just that. A possible explanation in this case is that your man was shipped to Mudros in late 1915 as a reinforcement for 4th or 5th Bn RSF at Gallipoli, was held at Mudros during the evacuation from the peninsula, then joined his battalion in 1916 once they withdrew to Salonika (or was it Egypt?), was wounded that year (see reference to wound stripe) and was shipped back to the UK. Therefore, service overseas from 1915 to 1916 without qualifying for a 1915 star. Not saying that's what happened, just that it's a plausible way of explaining the apparent anomaly that you're highlighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanBro Posted 28 August , 2020 Author Share Posted 28 August , 2020 Thanks for the info. I guess without the service record the reason is lost in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 28 August , 2020 Share Posted 28 August , 2020 True. But he's a TF man, and the medal roll should give you his battalion (there were only a couple of TF battalions who could have served overseas in 1915), so you should be able to get close to the truth. I reckon that my suggestion above may be not be too far off the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin ss002d6252 Posted 28 August , 2020 Admin Share Posted 28 August , 2020 #40017 RSF wasn't issued until march 1916 so, to have enlisted in 1914, #40004 McKillop must have had service under a different number. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 28 August , 2020 Share Posted 28 August , 2020 (edited) The 1914/15 Star was approved in 1918, for issue to officers and men of British Imperial Forces who saw service in any theatre of war against the Central Powers between 5th August, 1914, and 31st December, 1915, except those eligible of the 1914 Star. Therefore if he served overseas, but not in a theatre of war, he would not have been entitled to the 1914-15 Star. I have searched unsuccessfully for his record of service but it appears that it was one of 60% of WW1 service records destroyed (Ironically) by the Luftwaffe in WW2. However 40004 Corporal William McKillop pension records are available on Fold3 for which I do not have access to. Pension records often contain some service records which may help. Edited 28 August , 2020 by Lawryleslie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 28 August , 2020 Share Posted 28 August , 2020 His SWB card offers no further details but does confirm enlistment and discharge dates. Medal Rolls state he served with the 6/7th RSF. This battalion was formed when the 6th transferred from the 9th Division to the 15th Division on 7th May 1916 and were amalgamated with the 7th. Whilst I realise the number is some digits out it may have been issued from the same batch as 40064 Pte John Haining (coal miner group 3) 6/7th RSF, enlisted 16th November 1914 , first overseas service was posted to the 6/7th RSF in the field from 20 IBD on 12th September 1916. Interesting to note that Hainings' entry on the rolls is 5 or 6 pages on from McKillops' and is struck through and annotated 'entered in error' and the search for his MIC throws up his SWB. Looking at similar numbers (40065, 40090 and 40092) which relate to RSF, the initial picture I have is that he may have been put into army reserve after enlistment, mobilized early 1916 to 3rd Reserve RSF and posted to the 6/7th RSF in the field during late 1916 and hence no Star The 1915-1916 date on the OP doc is somewhat erroneous, that said headgardners explanation would work but I don't think it will in this case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 28 August , 2020 Admin Share Posted 28 August , 2020 He appears to have been in a draft (which included 40017 Bellingham) who arrived at 20 Infantry Base Depot Etaples and were posted to the 6/7 Battalion on 10 September 1916, joining the Battalion in the field on the 13 September. Bellingham was a Derby Scheme enlistment from December 1915 and mobilised on the 1st March 1916 to the KOYLI and transferred to the 2/4 RSF on 26 April 1916. The war diary shows a draft of 191 other ranks, who remained with transport at Mericourt on 12 September 1916. I only went up from 400**, there are a number of surviving records. Further research may identify the movement of others in the draft. A number were transferred to the RSF from other Provisional Battalions, they were too young for active service overseas until nineteen bu could join the TF at seventeen. How old was he in December 1914? There were a number of the draft later kia so cross referencing with soldiers effects may offer further insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 28 August , 2020 Share Posted 28 August , 2020 I think that echos my thoughts Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 28 August , 2020 Admin Share Posted 28 August , 2020 8 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: I think that echos my thoughts Ken Indeed it does, contemporaneous posts pieces in the puzzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanBro Posted 3 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 3 September , 2020 Thanks everyone. All very confusing and mysterious! Never heard of Fold3 incidentally! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Lang Posted 3 September , 2020 Share Posted 3 September , 2020 (edited) His MIC shows that he was awarded a Silver War Badge. The SWB Roll shows No 510517 and that he enlisted on 7-12-14 and was discharged on 2-3-19. Fold3 Pension Record shows that a Pension was awarded on 3.3.19 as a result of 'Tachycardia', but does not show an amount. His address was 47 Wellpark Road, Saltcoats. Tom. Edited 3 September , 2020 by Tom Lang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanBro Posted 4 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 4 September , 2020 18 hours ago, Tom Lang said: His MIC shows that he was awarded a Silver War Badge. The SWB Roll shows No 510517 and that he enlisted on 7-12-14 and was discharged on 2-3-19. Fold3 Pension Record shows that a Pension was awarded on 3.3.19 as a result of 'Tachycardia', but does not show an amount. His address was 47 Wellpark Road, Saltcoats. Tom. Thank you, that's fantastic. Kind regards Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now