No.9 Observation Group, 2nd Field Survey Battalion, Royal Engineers. Lille, December, 1918. Help Identify Men Please.

[GWF1967]

No.9 Observation Group. 2nd Field Survey Battalion. Royal Engineers. The men wear a "dark blue oval patch with the letters "F.S.C. in red" (British Army Proficiency Badges. D.Edwards and D. Langley).

 The senior N.C.O's wear badges identifying them as Ground Observers. 

 

Left to right.

Back Row.   All as yet unidentified.

Row.2.  

No.3. Pte. Vivian Joyce - 1068-30256. Beds Yeomanry.  523990. R.E.  

No.4. Pte. Francis Vaux. - 12305. Beds Yeomanry.  - 363067. R.E.

No.5.  Sap. Percy H. Hasluck. - 2720. H.A.C. - 567907.  R.E.

No.6.  Sap. Norman Pennington. - 3/24303. Lancs. Fus. - 358816. R.E.

 

Row.3.

No.1.  Sap. Cyril Ewart Rainbow. - 126727. R.E.

No.4.  Sap. Herbert Crofton Suttill. - R/23427. K.R.R.C. - 24372. West Yorks. Reg. - 358818. R.E. 

No.5.  Sap. William Richard Ball. - 25892. Rifle Brig. - 29298. Glos. Reg. - 13163. T.Res. Brig. - 200969. K.R.R.C. - 357782. R.E.

No.6.  Sap. Ernest Stansfield. - 145464. R.E.

No.7.  Sap. Thomas Roger Dawson. - 34069. Border Reg. - 51445. Manc. Reg. - 361254. R.E.

 

Row.4.

No.3.  L/Cpl.  Roger W. Harrison. - T/1277. - 562423. R.E.

No.6.  Sap.  Reginald John Wilcock. - 39114. Lieces. Reg. - 357783. R.E. 

No.7.  Sap.  William Edward Austin. - 32665. Royal Lancast. Reg. - 360792. R.E.

No.9.  2nd Cpl.  Ernest S. Wilkinson. - 2426. Norfolk Yeo. - 29702. Norfolk Reg. - 531918. R.E.

 

Row.5.

No.2.  L/Cpl.  Ronald Speight. - 134151. R.E.

No.3.  L/Cpl.  Ernest W. Wooldridge. - 3695-201271. Ox + Bucks L.I. - 495906. R.E.

No.5.  L/Cpl.  Morris Lewis Roberts. - 10913. R.W.F. - 246909. R.E.

No.8.  Sap.  Charles Arthur Hocknell. - 489763. R.E. 

No.9.  Cpl.  Frederick W. Fouracre. - 926.- 246776. R.E. 

No.10.  Cpl. David W. Forrest. - S/5613. Gordons. - 246803. R.E.

No.11.  Cpl.  Charles S. Reid. - 8390. Seaforths. - 246823. R.E.

 

Front Row.

No.1.  2nd Cpl.  Harry Max. - 66568. R.E.

No.2.  Sgt.  William Marsh. M.M. - 48426. R.G.A.  246779. R.E.

No.3.  Lieut.  Frederick Walter Shiner. - 2/Lt. Glos. Reg. - Lt/Capt. R.E.  

No.4.  Capt.  William Thomas Smellie. - 2/Lt. A.S.H. - Capt. R.E.

No.5  Lieut.  Bertram Raymond Long. - 2/Lt. Royal Irish Reg. - Lt. R.E.

No.6  T/C.Q.M.S.  Herbert Dugdale. M.M. - 11329.  R.E.

No.7.  Cpl.  William J. Venables. - 64316. R.A.M.C. - 246787. R.E. 

 

Any help with identifying the other men would be appreciated.

 

            

 

Edited 20 January , 2022 by GWF1967

[Terry_Reeves]

Interesting photo, thanks for posting.

 

TR

[GWF1967]

13 hours ago, Terry_Reeves said:

Interesting photo, thanks for posting.

 

TR

Glad you found it of interest Terry.

[SapperBoo]

Very interesting post that I will spend some time researching!  For now I only have one suggestion that might be worth further investigation. 14639, LCpl Herbert Oliver Jones MC (LG 9/8/1921) RE.  Prior to the outbreak of the war he was RE serving with the Ordnance Survey in Nairobi.  He was granted temporary rank of Lt whilst serving in East Africa (MIC 9/3/16).  Could this be the same man?

 

Clive

[GWF1967]

On 24/08/2020 at 11:51, SapperBoo said:

Very interesting post that I will spend some time researching!  For now I only have one suggestion that might be worth further investigation. 14639, LCpl Herbert Oliver Jones MC (LG 9/8/1921) RE.  Prior to the outbreak of the war he was RE serving with the Ordnance Survey in Nairobi.  He was granted temporary rank of Lt whilst serving in East Africa (MIC 9/3/16).  Could this be the same man?

 

Clive

Sorry Clive, I missed your post. Many thanks for your help. 

[HTSCF Fareham]

[GWF1967]

8 hours ago, HTSCF Fareham said:

 

Thank you. 

[FROGSMILE]

You are very good at finding interesting photos GWF1967.  Presumably the Gloucestershire Regiment and Argyll & Sutherland Highlander Officers are on probation for transfer to the RE.  Their ranks as Lieutenant and Captain whilst still wearing their regimental insignia are presumably temporary if the substantive ranks you quoted are accurate.  The soldier with Tam-o-shanter bonnet stood at rear right is very likely to also be A&SH and Captain Smellie’s soldier-servant (batman).  He would have been familiar with the regimental dress.

[Terry_Reeves]

In fact, it is not unusual to find officers and men attached to observation groups from the infantry who did not transfer.

 

TR

[FROGSMILE]

8 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said:

In fact, it is not unusual to find officers and men attached to observation groups from the infantry who did not transfer.

 

TR

Yes I understand that Terry, but in this case GWF1967 has annotated that the two officers became RE, unless that’s a misunderstanding?

[GWF1967]

On 25/01/2021 at 09:17, FROGSMILE said:

You are very good at finding interesting photos GWF1967.  Presumably the Gloucestershire Regiment and Argyll & Sutherland Highlander Officers are on probation for transfer to the RE.  Their ranks as Lieutenant and Captain whilst still wearing their regimental insignia are presumably temporary if the substantive ranks you quoted are accurate. 

Many thanks, I’m glad you found it interesting. 

 

On 25/01/2021 at 10:03, FROGSMILE said:

Yes I understand that Terry, but in this case GWF1967 has annotated that the two officers became RE, unless that’s a misunderstanding?

All three officers (Lt. Glos. - Capt. A&SH. - Lt. Royal Irish) are shown as Royal Engineers on their MIC’s.

[FROGSMILE]

5 minutes ago, GWF1967 said:

Many thanks, I’m glad you found it interesting. 

 

All three officers (Lt. Glos. - Capt. A&SH. - Lt. Royal Irish) are shown as Royal Engineers on their MIC’s.

Thank you, that’s what I thought.  Ergo the photo was taken during a probationary period, as they’re still wearing infantry regimental dress.  Such probation is standard for transfers.  Once formally accepted parent unit details change and new insignia and items of uniform have to be purchased.

Edited 26 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Peter marsh]

William marsh mm, 2nd left bottom row  is my Grandfather. Our family still resides around Salford/ Manchester. I would love to have any light , as to how and where he gained his MM. We have his medal and written citation but nothing else. Help please. Kind regards Peter Marsh.

[charlie962]

22 minutes ago, Peter marsh said:

We have his medal and written citation

Welcome. Can you tell us what the citation says, please?

Charlie

[charlie962]

Marsh 78655 has an MM card that says he was Signal subsection, 90th Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery.

 

[Peter marsh]

8 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Welcome. Can you tell us what the citation says, please?

Charlie .yep 

William marsh mm, 2nd left bottom row  is my Grandfather. Our family still resides around Salford/ Manchester. I would love to have any light , as to how and where he gained his MM. We have his medal and written citation but nothing else. Help please. Kind regards Peter Marsh. 

I will photo and upload . It's hand written and very faded.  Thanks if you can give me any info. It will be tomorrow as the album is at mums.

[charlie962]

The war diary for 90 Bde RGA is here at Nat archives and free to download if you register. 

"90 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery | The National Archives" https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/a0a42ffd64274cafb495a3b3b50eaf3a

[Peter marsh]

Thank you. 

Tomorrow , I'll forward what i have.  Its been a long family mystery,   

[Alisonmallen62]

Very interesting photo but dnt their faces tell a story. 

[Peter marsh]

Hi Alisonmallen62.

Yep granddad looks worn out. I have happier pictures at my mum's. 

[GWF1967]

4 hours ago, Peter marsh said:

William marsh mm, 2nd left bottom row  is my Grandfather. Our family still resides around Salford/ Manchester. 

Hi Peter,

 I’m glad you found the thread, I hope the photograph is of interest. 

[Peter marsh]

Can anyone direct message me, I'm struggling to upload photos., Guy wishes to see photo of medals, I've sent them to somewhere else within the forum ?

[Peter marsh]

The medal i have has a number on it. His star medal says gunner 48426 royal artillery.  The photo is grandad William marsh, a note in pencil relates to  battle at vimy ridge. The military medal states he was acting lance corporal.  

[Peter marsh]

William Marsh.

Hand written notes 

[Peter marsh]

That's from a newspaper.