ALL artillery fans go stand in the corner

[ianjonesncl]

ALFBP

 

Many thanks for the feedback on my blog  entry and the additional information

 

I downloaded the 85 Brigade RGA War Diary, with 2 Siege Battery as one of their units, and reviewed the events leading up to the toppling of the Virgin.

 

The section on the Narrative of Events since 21-Mar-18 outlines moves and positions which refer to the ALBERT map. The entry for 28th March, when it looks like the effect of the German Offensive has stabilised, details Brigade HQ at BAIZIEUX , which is 3km SW HENENCOURT. The entry outlines the batteries are all in action at V21, which looks like to be NW of MILENCOURT. The view and map looking towards Albert in the blog entry shows Milencourt to the left which is located in square V.

 

I re-checked WO -95-5494 Allocation and 85th Brigade was allocated to Fifth Army from 14th March 1918 to 1st May 1918. The 85 Brigade RGA War Diary outline that they joined the Australian Corps  7th April. I believe the Australians and Fifth Army were to the south of Albert on the 16th April, however it was unfortunately my mistaken assumption that the 85th Brigade RGA would be located to the south.

 

If I have the command and control relationships correct,  85 Brigade RGA, and within it 2nd Siege Battery , was in support of the Australian Corps who were part of Fifth Army. The account from Lieutenant Page within Heavy Artillery V Corps (as part of Fourth Army) led to the 57th Siege Battery record of the shoot.

 

For 2nd Siege Battery to be involved I believe it would have necessitated co-ordinating across Army and across Corps, which does seem complex.

 

The account in your grandfathers diary led to the identification of 2nd Siege Battery, which in turn led to 85th Brigade RGA and confirmation that 2nd Siege Battery were in the vicinity of Albert. The fact that the 85th Brigade War diary recorded the Statue of the Virgin being brought down, the event was obviously of interest to those located in the area. This is shown by the original post from Biffo in the recording of the downing of the statue in the 13th Welsh Regiment war diary.

 

Given the view from Milencourt that  mebu posted and the fact that 2nd Siege Battery would not be far from that village I think Lt Watson may have witnessed the event, and I think your grandfathers diary is accurate in the recording of the occasion. The fact Lt Watson's battery that brought it down, I am more inclined to believe it "may have been over keen to claim credit"

 

Ian

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

On 22/08/2020 at 22:21, Ron Clifton said:

2nd Siege Battery was equipped with six-inch howitzers, and was part of the original BEF of August 1914. In March 1918 it was under Fifth Army as part of 85 (Mobile) Brigade RGA, whose War Diary can be downloaded free from the National Archives website. Here is the reference:

WO 95/479 85 Brigade Royal Garrison Artillery 1917 Apr. - 1919 Feb.  

 

Thanks, Ron, for pointing me in the right direction - I should have listened to you in the first place!

One can surely conclude from their diary entry for 16/04/18 that 85 Brigade could see the Virgin from at least one of their positions! 

[A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy]

18 hours ago, ianjonesncl said:

For 2nd Siege Battery to be involved I believe it would have necessitated co-ordinating across Army and across Corps, which does seem complex.

 

The account in your grandfathers diary led to the identification of 2nd Siege Battery, which in turn led to 85th Brigade RGA and confirmation that 2nd Siege Battery were in the vicinity of Albert. The fact that the 85th Brigade War diary recorded the Statue of the Virgin being brought down, the event was obviously of interest to those located in the area. This is shown by the original post from Biffo in the recording of the downing of the statue in the 13th Welsh Regiment war diary.

 

Given the view from Milencourt that  mebu posted and the fact that 2nd Siege Battery would not be far from that village I think Lt Watson may have witnessed the event, and I think your grandfathers diary is accurate in the recording of the occasion. The fact Lt Watson's battery that brought it down, I am more inclined to believe it "may have been over keen to claim credit"

 

Ian, for some reason I missed your last post when posting yesterday. Thank you for your analasis. You may well be right that young Watson was not actually involved in the shoot. The footnote that I include in the published version of my grandfather's diary will have to be quite circumspect, I think!

Edited 30 August , 2020 by A Lancashire Fusilier by Proxy