Formation Motor Machine Gun Service - Army Order 480

[pjwmacro]

Army Order 480, dated 12 November 1914 and sanctioned in February 1915, approved the addition to each Division of a unit known as a Motor Machine Gun Battery. They were designated to be units of the Royal Field Artillery and were collectively known as the Motor Machine Gun Service.

 

Would anyone happen to have a copy of this Army Order?  Or even be able to find a file reference for it in TNA?

 

Any help gratefully received - Many thanks, Paul

 

Would 

[MaureenE]

Would it be in WO 123/56     1914 Army orders (War Office)?

 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/r/C2595674

 

Cheers

Maureen

[pjwmacro]

20 hours ago, Maureene said:

Would it be in WO 123/56     1914 Army orders (War Office)?

 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/r/C2595674

 

Cheers

Maureen

Thanks Maureen.  I suspect you are and it is in WO 123/56 or WO 123/57 (1915). But even with those references,  I xannot find the actual Army Irder 480 . And it isn't digitised. 

 

Wondering if David Murdoch can help.

[MaureenE]

"Army Order 480. 1914. XV. – Motor Machine Gun Service" is set out in the following link from The Vickers Machine Gun,  titled "Motor Machine Gun Service, Motor Machine Gun Corps, Machine Gun Corps (Motors)" which also includes Army Council Instruction 289 of 26 October 1914  which set down the requirements for the Motor Machine Gun Service.

https://vickersmg.blog/in-use/british-service/the-british-army/machine-gun-corps/motor-machine-gun-service-motor-machine-gun-corps-machine-gun-corps-motors/

 

Cheers

Maureen

[pjwmacro]

On ‎12‎/‎08‎/‎2020 at 08:22, Maureene said:

"Army Order 480. 1914. XV. – Motor Machine Gun Service" is set out in the following link from The Vickers Machine Gun,  titled "Motor Machine Gun Service, Motor Machine Gun Corps, Machine Gun Corps (Motors)" which also includes Army Council Instruction 289 of 26 October 1914  which set down the requirements for the Motor Machine Gun Service.

https://vickersmg.blog/in-use/british-service/the-british-army/machine-gun-corps/motor-machine-gun-service-motor-machine-gun-corps-machine-gun-corps-motors/

 

Cheers

Maureen

Maureen

 

Thanks again, fascinating website which I have seen before, although clearly need to make more use of!  It suggests as well WO 293/1, Army Council Instructions 1914. But again not digitized.

 

The site contains all the detail I was looking for - although still hoping that somebody may have photos of the original Army Order 480. 1914. XV. – Motor Machine Gun Service, Army Council Instruction 289 of 26 October 1914 and Army Council Instruction 193 of 17th November, 1914.

 

Regards, thanks again for your help.

 

Paul

[themonsstar]

AO480/1914 Dec.

 

ACI 286.

[pjwmacro]

On 21/08/2020 at 14:17, themonsstar said:

AO480/1914 Dec.

 

ACI 286.

 

 

Many thanks themonsstar - much appreciated. Sorry for the delay in acknowledging - been away.

 

Interesting that there are some newspaper articles available (I need to check exactly where) that indicate that indicate that effectively, even before the Motorcycle magazine began recruiting, there was at least one "private venture" MMG Battery (No1 Battery?) in existence at this stage.

 

Regards, Paul

[david murdoch]

On 25/08/2020 at 07:34, pjwmacro said:

Many thanks themonsstar - much appreciated. Sorry for the delay in acknowledging - been away.

 

Interesting that there are some newspaper articles available (I need to check exactly where) that indicate that indicate that effectively, even before the Motorcycle magazine began recruiting, there was at least one "private venture" MMG Battery (No1 Battery?) in existence at this stage.

 

Regards, Paul

Paul. Yes I pulled up several newspaper reports - it was published in the national newspapers in the couple of days after the Army order was made public. However in The Motorcycle as early as September 1914 a machine gun equipped sidecar outfit had been spotted in London and in the October they had a small article looking for recruits for "The First London Motor Machine Gun Battery". When the MMGS was formed this unit appears to have been taken over and formed the nucleus of 1st MMG Battery. It is referred to as Lord Lyvenden's Contingent so presumably was privately funded (probably a bit like Willoughby's armoured car venture). It looks like they had been at least started in September and this probably explains how 1st MMG was ready to go to France in December 1914.

[david murdoch]

On 21/08/2020 at 09:17, themonsstar said:

AO480/1914 Dec.

 

ACI 286.

 

Noting the reference to the Hythe Machine Gun course. The men sent on this were already a couple of weeks into the course by the time the Army order was announced and they were already in the process of transferring suitable recruits from other units. It also means a lot of the names on the Hythe course roll were obviously selected in October 1914 and went straight into MMGS after the course. Many names from that course show up as Battery commanders, BSMs and NCOs - so really they represent the core of the original MMGS  - off the street recruiting only really started in December with 5th Battery. The first four batteries (original contingents) coming pretty well entirely from transfers/volunteers as noted above. Many of these men had only been in the army a couple of months, though the NCOs show up as being pre war regulars or reservists who had mobilised. 

[pjwmacro]

On 11/09/2020 at 19:29, david murdoch said:

Paul. Yes I pulled up several newspaper reports - it was published in the national newspapers in the couple of days after the Army order was made public. However in The Motorcycle as early as September 1914 a machine gun equipped sidecar outfit had been spotted in London and in the October they had a small article looking for recruits for "The First London Motor Machine Gun Battery". When the MMGS was formed this unit appears to have been taken over and formed the nucleus of 1st MMG Battery. It is referred to as Lord Lyvenden's Contingent so presumably was privately funded (probably a bit like Willoughby's armoured car venture). It looks like they had been at least started in September and this probably explains how 1st MMG was ready to go to France in December 1914.

 

Thanks David

 

It was your posting those clippings on the FB group, and the stuff about the course at Hythe, which sparked my interest in the actual origins f the MMGS.

 

Regards, Paul