understanding basic military units

[Alecras234]

Hi im reading a ww1 diary that follows a 2nd lieutenant of the 1st battalion the loyal north lancashire regiment to mons and to ypres.   I was enjoying the book up until it mentions 2nd corps and 4th guards brigade.   What i want to know is and im finding it difficult to understand is what is 2nd corps?  The 1st battalion the loyal north lancs were retreating and my book says the 2nd corps were under heavy fire in Le Cateau .  I read on facebook that the BEF in ww1 were split to 1st and 2nd corps,   were they part of the lancashire regiment just in a different part of France or was the 2nd corps a different army all together?    I am not getting this, i suffered head injury when i was six from a road traffic accident so i find things hard to understand but once i do understand something, it feels great.  Thanks.   Ash

[Michelle Young]

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/definitions-of-units/the-basic-hierarchy-of-the-army/

 

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/

 

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/other-aspects-of-order-of-battle/the-british-corps-headquarters-in-france-and-flanders/

 

Does this help? 

 

Michelle 

[Alecras234]

is there an image of this   illustrating the various subdivisions?

• Soldier -> in the infantry, he is part of a Battalion (c. 1000 men) This is subdivided into four Companies, which are each subdivided into four Platoons, which are each subdivided into four Sections.
• several Battalions -> are under command of a Brigade (c.5000 men)
• several Brigades -> are under command of a Division (c.20000 men)
• several Divisions -> are under command of a Corps
• several Corps -> are under command of an Army
• several Armies (the British eventually had five in France and Flanders) -> under command of a GHQ, General Headquarters
• GHQ -> under command of the War Office.

[Keith_history_buff]

I have seen this thread on Facebook too.

As per the pyramid that was provided, there are different levels of granularity. To use the concept of the currency at the time, the lowest level was pennies, the subsequent level was the shilling (comprised of twelve pennies), and the ultimate level was the pound (comprised of twenty shillings). In a similar sense, there are battalions, brigades and divisions in the same manner there are pennies, shillings and pounds.

As far as the British Army was concerned, the regiment does not feature in terms of the various dimensions of organisation. It was elsewhere. Its battalions were grouped into brigades. For the purposes of this topic, the regiment served an administrative function, and would not have been involved in the hierarchy of troops in a battle formation.

Postscript: Yes, I think you have a good understanding of the various dimensions.

 

[Steven Broomfield]

12 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

As far as the British Army was concerned, the regiment does not feature in terms of the various dimensions of organisation. It was elsewhere. Its battalions were grouped into brigades. For the purposes of this topic, the regiment served an administrative function, and would not have been involved in the hierarchy of troops in a battle formation.

Postscript: Yes, I think you have a good understanding of the various dimensions.

 

 

Except, of course, in terms of cavalry.

[Keith_history_buff]

Agreed. What is important is that a specific scope is met: how do all these hierarchies of organisation fit in, in relation to 1st Battalion Loyal North Lancashire Regiment in WW1. I would say that the question has been successfully addressed. There have been some challenges along the way, but I would beg that things are left as they are. The concepts have been challenging enough, without going away from the original scope. The OP ought not be even more confused.

The matter has also been discussed concurrently in the WW1 Buffs Facebook private group, too.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2349109384/permalink/10157676402969385/

[David Filsell]

Agreed. Question has been asked and answered - then complications have crept in!

Edited 11 August , 2020 by David Filsell

[Wexflyer]

15 hours ago, Alecras234 said:

is there an image of this   illustrating the various subdivisions?

• GHQ -> under command of the War Office.

 

That last step is not quite right IMHO. All the steps up to this one involve operational control/command.
The War Office was NOT an operational headquarters, and did not issue operational orders to the different GHQs around the world.

This is in contrast to the Admiralty, which was an operational headquarters, and did issue operational commands to CinCs of Fleets.

 

[Don Regiano]

4 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

The OP ought not be even more confused.

 

Don't mention the Rifle Brigade or KRRC then!

[Steven Broomfield]

7 hours ago, David Filsell said:

Agreed. Question has been asked and answered - then complications have crept in!

 

Yes ... but we are talking about the British Army. What did you expect?

[David Filsell]

Steven,

How true, and of course the forums, often complictionist, members!

best regards

David

[Alecras234]

Please guys, im a beginner and i'm finding it hard to understand.   I've been studying this, 1 and 2 corps down to division and down to brigade and the 4 battalions that make the brigade.   Where does regiment come into it?   im reading about the 1st battalion the loyal north lancashire regiment.

 

[Steven Broomfield]

An infantry regiment was effectively an administrative body. Take the Hampshire Regiment as an example.

 

The 1st and 2nd Battalions were Regular (i.e. permanent). One battalion would be overseas, policing the Empire; the other would be in the UK

 

The 3rd Battalion was Special Reserve, tasked with providing a pool of men able to reinforce the Regulars in the event of war

 

the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th Battalions were Territorial: part-time, Home Service-only, intended for home defence in the event of war. However, on the outbreak of the Great War, many (most) volunteered to serve overseas.

 

Any number above 9 was a Service Battalion, raised for war service only.

 

Obviously the number of Territorial battalions would vary - a sparsely populated county would have fewer (Berkshire and Wiltshire, for example, had only one each)

 

In war, Regular battalions very rarely served together, but whole Brigades might be composed of several TF or Service battalions.

 

Hope that helps.

[Keith_history_buff]

You are interested in battle formations, and regiments do not fit into the hierarchy.

 

Infantry:

Platoon
        Company

              Battalion

                     Brigade

                          Division

                                 Corps

Infantry regiments perform administration, sending replacements to the various battalions of which they are the "parent", and the regiment sits elsewhere.

[Justin Moretti]

Part of the confusion is that in the British Army, a Regiment is an administrative and recruiting body, and an anchor for the unit's history, potentially across many hundreds of years, while the battalions it raises might be dispatched to the same brigade/division/corps/army or not (maybe not even the same theatre of war).

 

In other armies, however, the Regiment is an actual fighting unit, approximately equivalent to a British Brigade.