Junk shop picture

[pierssc]

I'm not convinced by dressing up theories.  The sitter seems comfortable in his clothes.  Can I suggest another possibility?

 

Ralph Smith Miller is a private in the RAMC.  In the course of his duties he meets a sick/wounded RA officer who bears a striking resemblance to himself.  The similarity is obvious to both men and to others.  They joked that the RAMC man could pass himself off as the officer as they were like two peas in a pod.  The officer thought this could be funny.  He happened to have a spare portrait of himself (which he had had made into postcards to send to his aunts, girlfriends etc).  Being a former ranker who had won the MM, and not at all a stuffy regular army type, he gave the RAMC man one so he could amaze his family at his elevation.  The RAMC man thought it would be a jolly jape to sign it as if it was a photo of himself and send it to an old pal, a sapper.  The pal, who may never have realised the joke, cut the postcard into an oval to put into a frame, and hung it proudly on the wall when he got home. He had an old friend who was an Officer!  And there the photo stayed.  
 

Complete speculation of course.  We will probably never know.
 

We just need to find the photo that Ralph Smith Miller gave the officer in return and that he in turn sent to a pal in the Battery.  "Cushy number, I've decided to stay here in the RAMC, love Gerald* !

*insert whatever name you like.

Edited 13 August , 2020 by pierssc
Doh! Got RSM's name wrong in first version

[TullochArd]

I too have a theory...... perhaps a simpler one .....with no skulduggery involved.

 

We know both the dedication on the front and the "Perm Address" on the back are in Pte “RSM” RAMC’s handwriting.  The Derwent Street address on the back is in a different hand.  The photo on the front is of a wounded 2Lt, MM, RHA/RFA. 

 

I believe we have three people involved, the three know each other and have a lost previous connection (possibly former school friends, maybe some social connection perhaps only a common past location). 

 

I would offer that, at some point, Pte RSM RAMC had interaction with wounded "2Lt MM RFA/RHA" and took/arranged for a RPPC photo of his wounded “Old Pal” which he gifted to him along with his dedication "..ith Best Wishes.  Your Old Pal Ralph" including his "Perm Address" on the back so they could keep in touch.

 

 

[Alisonmallen62]

Looking at the street view map whilst some houses are terraced there are some larger ones which would suggest middle or upper working class.  I have seen that Ralph was a piano dealer  which to me doesn’t seem along the lines of coal hewers/steel workers etc.  I agree he looks comfortable in his uniform.  I dnt think the family have yet responded but will check.  There seems to have been a child and their details are private suggesting they are alive so again have politely requested confirmation from the family. 
ref Ralph record and description the photo does match a ruddy faced lad.  

Edited 14 August , 2020 by Alisonmallen62

[headgardener]

20 hours ago, helpjpl said:

 

1.  RSM's sister Margaret married bank clerk Ashley Stanford Graham in 1901. 

In  1911 they were living in Carlise with their daughter Eleanor (8), son Donald (7) and

• Ralph Smith Miller (20) - professional skater
• Robert Lamley Williamson (19) - an articled pupil (land agent) 

Ancestry has a Royal Aero Club Aviators Certificate for Robert Lamley Williamson (born 16/12/1891) - but I can't access the document to see if a photo is included.

 

2.  RSM's sister Eleanor married Edgar McDonald in 1910. If I've got it right, he was a dental anaesthetist (1911 census).

 

3.  Not sure what became of RSM"s third sister Jeannie (born abt 1882) or brother John (born abt 1876).

 

4.  RSM's brother James Boustead/Bonstead Miller (born abt 1884) may have served as a Corporal in the RASC (ancestry):

 

 

Many thanks for checking this out. In the absence of any photos of the men concerned, I checked likely service records or MIC’s to see if any might have been a 2/Lt in the RA with an MM - but no luck so far.

 

Ashley Stanford Graham might be Ashley S Graham (this was the only Ashley S Graham that I could find) who was a Pte 58002 Welsh Rgt & Pte 40120 Wilts Rgt

James Bowstead/Bousted Miller has an MIC showing him as Dvr DM2/151490 ASC

Robert Lamley Williamson was an RFC dispatch rider, then an officer cadet, then an RAF officer

Edited 13 August , 2020 by headgardener

[Alisonmallen62]

Ralph and Mary had a son and he may well be alive as the 1939 record is not available for him.  I checked births and he is Keith R Miller born Bristol 1931 so an old gentleman of 89 years.   He is likely the only one who could identify his father.  
Tomorrow I will try to contact by letter the possible Keith’s on electoral roll as I really do want to know who that photo is of.  As it was in a junk shop it did make me wonder if the son had moved home and possessions ended up in the shop? 

Edited 13 August , 2020 by Alisonmallen62

[TullochArd]

A reflective article in the Cumberland and Westmorland Herald from 1998 mentions RSM.  It reads:  

"In the beginning, the Alhambra was a dual purpose entertainment hall, built by William Forrester on the site of the former Middlegate brewery. It was to serve as both a roller-skating rink and a theatre — and, therefore, there were two openings. A star skater, Ralph Miller, launched the rink with a classy exhibition of skills in January, 1910, and a week later the hall was formally opened as “a place of elevating entertainment” by the vicar of Penrith, the Rev. J. Cropper. The curtain rose to the tuneful strains of the Penrith Orchestral Society and also on the bill for the first concert were humourist Frank Crawford, zither-banjoist Olly Oakley, tenor Wilfrid Hudson, baritone Edmund Telfer, contralto Miss Graham and soprano Miss Edmondson."

Might there be period advertising photo/poster somewhere of him?

Regarding headgardener's search for a 2Lt MM RA/RHA ........ I've drawn a blank as well.  It is perhaps further complicated by the possibility that the photo subject may be a holding an honorary commission in the RA/RHA and earned that award in another unit?

[Wingcowyn]

Hi all,

Many thanks for all your input. Little did I realise that this picture would be the subject of so many theories and that the hap in this picture would prove so difficult to identify.

Peter

Edited 14 August , 2020 by Wingcowyn
Misspelling

[Alisonmallen62]

I Wrote to several addresses in the hope that we may find Ralph’s son Keith Miller who could confirm details for us.  Sadly he passed away in 2018 having been placed in a home due to failing health.  It seems he had great neighbours who had been looking after him.  It still may be possible to confirm that Ralph is the officer in the photo and if it doesn’t seem like a take over bid as it was not my post I am happy to write back and send the photo.  The gentleman who wrote back was a lifelong friend of Keith’s and he just might have seen family photos.  
 

He confirmed Keith Royston Miller was the son of Ralph And Isabel and he knew them and that Ralph kept a music shop, their background was linked to Cumberland but lived in Bristol.  He calls Keith Royston.  Royston served in ww2 RAMC.  He was also an excellent musician and played with the RAF Salon Orchestra previously known as Squadronaires. 
 

so, I think it was already established the man in the photo was Ralph and this chap may be able to add to that but as to the uniform perhaps the cousin he mentioned would know.  I suspect that was the family tree who knew nothing.  
 

Let me know if anyone objects to me trying again by sending the photo To this person. 

[travers61]

If you are looking for any further possible realtions or friends of Keith Royston Miller (died 2018), his will and grant of probate are available here for £ 1.50. No idea of current time scales. Good to see he had great neighbours.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?Surname=miller&SurnameGrants=miller&FirstName=keith&FirstNameGrants=keith&YearOfDeath=2018&YearOfDeathGrants=2018&AdvancedSearch=True&IsGrantSearch=True&IsCalendarSearch=False#wills

[Alisonmallen62]

Many thanks indeed

[Wingcowyn]

Hi and thanks Alison and Travers61,

Thank you very much indeed Alison, for your efforts in trying to identify this chap. I certainly have no objection to you sending the photograph and am extremely grateful for your assistance and that of everyone else who has posted in this thread.

Thanks,

Peter

[Alisonmallen62]

Ok well let’s see if it will help - will try and get to it tomorrow - fingers crossed but interesting the son was RAMC I thought he was RAF due to the band reference. 

[Alisonmallen62]

No joy I am afraid.  I sent a copy of the top half of Ralph but I’m afraid I have been told he is wearing a normal soldier’s uniform.  The gentleman said that if he was an officer he would have a Sam Browne so I think the photo can’t have been too clear.  I was hoping that he would say if it resembled the son he knew.  So looks like the friend and the family know little or nothing or arnt saying.  Shame. Worth a try at least. 

Edited 28 October , 2020 by Alisonmallen62

[Wingcowyn]

Hi Alison,

Thanks very much indeed for your efforts. It is disappointing that the chap cannot see that he is actually wearing  a Sam Browne in the photograph or doesn’t  want to recognise it. As you said it was worth a try.

Thank you very much indeed for your great effort in trying to identify the man in the photograph, and indeed to everyone else who has contributed.

Peter

 

[Alisonmallen62]

Further update I have had a response from a family member who has now read this thread.  I am awaiting her agreement to post her comments.  She did enquire about her grandfather mentioned above James Boustead Miller who had been an ambulance driver.  Can anyone add more for him please?

Edited 1 November , 2020 by Alisonmallen62

[Alisonmallen62]

The response from a family member is as follows: 

 ‘Ralph Smith Miller, Yes, you’re correct, he did live at 13 Roper Street, Workington, as did his father, Thomas Miller.  According to Thomas’s Will, dated 1924, both were still living there.

Ralph was my grandfather’s brother (my great uncle) but as I never met him or saw any photo of him, I am unable to identify him in this picture.  However, comparing the signature on the front of the photo with his signature on his Army Enlistment papers, they are identical.  It is unlikely he would have signed his name on the front of a photograph of someone else, so I would stick my neck out and say it is most probably him.  Comparing it to a photo of my grandfather, there are similarities, although it’s easy to see them when you want to!

The real mystery, it seems, is the uniform he is wearing – that of an officer in either the Royal Field Artillery or the Royal Horse Artillery, according to one comment on the Great War Forum.  As we know already, Ralph enlisted with the RAMC in late 1914 and was discharged a few months later due to being medically unfit.  Whether or not he re-enlisted following medical treatment is less clear and, from what I do know of him from my mother (now deceased), I would have said it was unlikely.  Interestingly, I found one comment in the Forum that suggested the uniform may have been a theatrical costume – and I have to say this would be my theory too.

My mother’s only contact with Ralph was when she was growing up and, due to her father’s early death, the families spread far and wide and no-one kept in touch.  But what I do remember her telling me of Ralph is that he was ever the showman.  He was an accomplished roller skater and dancer, who gave professional skating and dance displays at numerous venues and was, like the rest of the Miller family, very musical.  He must at least have been a competent musician as records show his frequent employment in the sale of musical instruments.  I also recall my mother saying that at one time he danced professionally with his wife, Belle (Isabella).  We know he moved to Bristol (not sure when) and had a son named Keith, as you yourself discovered.

As mentioned, all the Millers were at one time or another involved in entertainment, both professionally and casually.  None more so than the oldest brother, John Miller – a professional musician who, according to information I have gathered from the online British Newspaper Archive, advertised himself as a Professor of Violin and Viola in the Workington local newspaper, offering tuition (circa 1900).  There are numerous mentions of John Miller prior to and after this date as he appears to have been involved with the Opera House theatre in Workington and was at one time its Musical Director.

There are also references to his involvement with string quartets, orchestras (in particular, Nock & Miller’s Orchestra) and, indeed, theatrical companies.  He would have been involved with the production of plays, dramas, comedies and pantomimes and, I suspect, the other Miller siblings, including Ralph, would have been involved too.  My own grandfather, James, played the cello and saxophone and, apart from a spell in the Army during WWI, played professionally his whole working life.  Also, two of the sisters – Maggie and Jane, sang and recited at competition level.  So I would suggest that Ralph was no stranger to the stage!

This allows for the theory that the ‘uniform’ could have been a theatrical costume – or a photographer’s prop, and that the photograph was a joke between friends.  There is the other suggestion, of course, that he did re-enlist in the Army, perhaps in the capacity of an entertainer, but this is highly speculative, as there would bound to be records to support this, which doesn’t appear to be the case.  I think the idea that Ralph re-enlisted and was promoted to officer is also unlikely.  His love for music and entertainment doesn’t really sit well with that of a career soldier.

On a separate but related issue, I was interested to read one comment on the Great War Forum that mentioned my grandfather, James Boustead Miller, serving as a Corporal in the RASC.  I can add that, according to my mother, he was an ambulance driver and, being a musician before enlisting, also a band leader.  She spoke of him “transporting the wounded in France…” – and we know he was based at one time at Bulford Camp, Salisbury Plain, as this was the address given on his marriage certificate in 1916.

Unfortunately, although I have been able to obtain on Ancestry his Medal Award Roll, I have been unable to obtain a copy of his Enlistment and Service Record.  During one of my searches, it was suggested that this document, along with thousands of others for the RASC, was lost in the London Blitz.  Whether true or not, it would be lovely to find it.  Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for this very interesting information.

 

Further to the info from the family above I mentioned Keith Royston Miller to them but whilst his friend said he was RAMC in Ww2 I think it was more likely national service.  Should I advise this person to start a separate post for her grandfather? 
Alison 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Thanks for your endeavours Alison.

So, we think it probably is Pte. Ralph Miller, RAMC then?

If your correspondent would care to forward a photo of her grandfather, I'm sure we could offer to express an opinion as to whether or not we think they look similar.

1 hour ago, Alisonmallen62 said:

I mentioned Keith Royston Miller to them but whilst his friend said he was RAMC in Ww2 I think it was more likely national service.  Should I advise this person to start a separate post for her grandfather? 

As KRM was I think born in 1931, then his military service would clearly be even later than the Second World War.

So other than his being a relation to Ralph, any discussion of his own military service is outwith the area of interest of both this forum and WW2Talk. Perhaps there is a National Service forum where she could post for further help.

[Wingcowyn]

Thanks Alison and Dai Bach Y Soldiwr,

I think that it is amazing Alison, that we have been able to identify this chap and would like to offer to post the picture to the lady in question so that she has this picture of her relative in her possession. That is if she would like it, and of course I would need her address.

Thanks,

Peter

 

[Alisonmallen62]

She may well read this but I will certainly let her know thank you.  Her grandfather was Ww1 so he may well be up next for discussion - James Boustead Miller Ambulance Driver. 

Edited 2 November , 2020 by Alisonmallen62

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

27 minutes ago, Alisonmallen62 said:

Her grandfather was Ww1 so he may well be up next for discussion - James Boustead Miller Ambulance Driver. 

Ah right.

Yes why not.

[JOVE23]

Might make sense to preemptively split that topic off so we don't have two discussions going on at the same time?

[Alisonmallen62]

Yes I have suggested she posts separately

[Wingcowyn]

Thanks Alison, Dai Bach Y Soldiwr and Jove 23.

Peter