Junk shop picture

[headgardener]

There is, however, a Ralph S Miller who was a Pte in the RAMC. The medal roll should confirm the middle name. But I don't want to encourage anyone to look stuff up on my behalf on Ancestry or FMP, y'understand..... 

..... but I can't find an MM MIC for him. 

[headgardener]

Dr Ralph Smith Miller isn't our man - he was born in Lanarkshire in 1861, studied Edinburgh, worked in Yorkshire, China, Japan and London, retired to Wiltshire, Died 1931.

Edited 8 August , 2020 by headgardener

[FROGSMILE]

40 minutes ago, headgardener said:

There is, however, a Ralph S Miller who was a Pte in the RAMC. The medal roll should confirm the middle name. But I don't want to encourage anyone to look stuff up on my behalf on Ancestry or FMP, y'understand..... 

..... but I can't find an MM MIC for him. 

This one might be promising if it connects to Roper Street?

[headgardener]

3 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

This one might be promising if it connects to Roper Street?

 

Indeed. And then the next step is connecting him to the uniform...! 

[FROGSMILE]

12 hours ago, headgardener said:

 

Indeed. And then the next step is connecting him to the uniform...! 

True, but if he was well educated and showed officer qualities, but had no professional medical qualifications, then he would have had little choice but to seek a commission outside the RAMC, or he would have reduced his options.  The commissioned medical administrators  and quartermasters tended to be older men of long experience. However, that would assume that the RA were happy to train him, as an ex-ranker, from scratch.  Not impossible after the first two years of war.

Edited 9 August , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Ivor Anderson]

22 hours ago, johnmelling1979 said:

Found Ralph Smith Millers Army record

 

Age 24

15494 Pte, 

11 Service Battalion, The Borderers Regiment (Lonsdale Battalion)

 

Confirming 13 Roper Street, Workington

 

He was discharged as not being fit for service on 6 April 1915

We know that this is probably the man in the photo as the back states 13 Roper Street as his perm(anent) address.

Service (pension) record on Ancestry states: Ralph Smith Miller of 13 Roper Street, Workington. Father Thomas Miller

Enlisted 2 November 1914 as 15494 (11th) Lonsdale Battalion, Border Regiment aged 24 years 157 days. 5 feet 8.5 inches, ruddy complexion, blue-green eyes, brown hair.

Discharged 6 April 1915 ‘not likely to become an efficient soldier’ after 156 days home service. Born in mid 1890, he is in Workington on the 1891 (10 months) & 1901 censuses, but Carlisle in 1911 ('Professional Skater', born Workington)? Occ. at enlistment in 1914 - 'Pianoforte Dealer'.

The reason for his medical discharge is interesting - perhaps he had his tumour treated and renlisted:

 

Edited 8 August , 2020 by Ivor Anderson
Additional information

[FROGSMILE]

That’s very unusual, as “not likely to become an efficient soldier” is still a discharge category today, but it’s used for incompetents rather than those medically afflicted.  It seems odd to be discharged in that way, only to be subsequently commissioned, especially after having apparently been awarded a MM as an other rank.  Presumably an officers record might have survived and refer to service in the ranks that can be cross referenced.

Edited 8 August , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[headgardener]

32 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

True, but if he was well educated and showed officer qualities, but had no professional medical qualifications, then he would have had little choice but to see a commission outside the RAMC, or he would have reduced his options.  The commissioned medical administrators  and quartermasters tended to be older men of long experience. However, that would assume that the RA were happy to train him, as an ex-ranker, from scratch.  Not impossible after the first two years of war.

 

Absolutely. I think the issue is establishing when he was awarded the MM and when he was commissioned. It could all have been post-war, of course. 

Unfortunately I don't have Ancestry or FMP, so hopefully someone can come along and add some further detail. 

As I understand it, we have a photo of a 2Lt in the RA or HAC who has an MM and was wounded at some stage. He has no other medal ribbons, so I'd estimate that the photo must date from sometime between 1916 and about 1919 (or 1920 just to be on the safe side). He signed the photo 'Ralph' and gave his 'permanent address' as 13 Roper St. 

I understand from what others have said that Ralph Smith Miller lived at 13 Roper St. Now we have to match that name to the photo, but we can't find him in the MIC's or in the National Archives index to officers service papers. And he doesn't appear to be in the Nov 1918 Army List. 

 

EDIT: it's possible that he's in the MIC's as a Pte in the RAMC

Edited 8 August , 2020 by headgardener

[Wingcowyn]

Hi everyone,

I am completely amazed at the response that I have had to my post. I do not seem to have received email notifications of the replies to this, so I will try and sort that out. I am not a member of ancestry and have no experience of tracing soldiers or indeed anyone else, but do have an interest in military history and collect military items. I have just looked at my post to see all this information and am extremely grateful to everyone that has responded. 
I am tapping this word of thanks out to everyone after glancing through the responses and will take time to analyse them in detail and respond again.

Thanks again very much to all of you and I appreciate the time that you have taken to reply to my post.

Peter

 

[Alisonmallen62]

I have seen in a medical directory a Ralph Smith Miller of that area.  As said above RAMC also.  I will try and load the info later.  On one document his name is recorded as Ralphsmith Miller and I found him each time as Ralph Miller the smith popped up occasionally.  I do t know how he became an officer from a private but there is also a family tree on ancestry so they might know more? 
nust got home and responded have not read posts above was going on stuff from last night! 

Edited 8 August , 2020 by Alisonmallen62

[Alisonmallen62]

1 hour ago, Ivor Anderson said:

We know that this is probably the man in the photo as the back states 13 Roper Street as his perm(anent) address.

Service (pension) record on Ancestry states: Ralph Smith Miller of 13 Roper Street, Workington. Father Thomas Miller

Enlisted 2 November 1914 as 15494 (11th) Lonsdale Battalion, Border Regiment aged 24 years 157 days. 5 feet 8.5 inches, ruddy complexion, blue-green eyes, brown hair.

Discharged 6 April 1915 ‘not likely to become an efficient soldier’ after 156 days home service. Born in mid 1890, he is in Workington on the 1891 (10 months) & 1901 censuses, but Carlisle in 1911?

The reason for his medical discharge is interesting - perhaps he had his tumour treated and renlisted:

 

I’m informed by a medical sibling that is a painful issue often preventing walking properly but treatable. 

[Ivor Anderson]

Thanks Alison. That make reenlistment a possibility!

The Military Medal records are not looking promising:

The only MM for a R. Miller in Chris Bate's 1919-1939 book was a MGC private for Iraq in 1920.

A Robert Scott Miller (T/2Lt) RGA (att. South African Heavy Artillery won the MC (LG 12 March 1917).

A John Robertson Millar (from Lochgally) 59876, 99 Siege Battery, RGA won the MM - LG 11 February 1919.

Bombardier Ralph J Smith, RFA 779 & 681769 from Liverpool, won the MM, LG 16-10-1917. 

 

Edited 8 August , 2020 by Ivor Anderson

[Acknown]

I don't know if it helps, but in the 1911 Census (Ancestry) the Scott family lived at 13 Roper Street; widower father, a son, a daughter and a granddaughter; three of them hairdressers. The son was 24-year-old Wallace Scott, born in Wokington.

Acknown

Edited 8 August , 2020 by Acknown

[Ivor Anderson]

Thanks Acknown. However, I cannot see anything suspicious about Ralph Smith Miller or his family. Ralph was living with his sister Margaret (she m. Graham in 1901) in Carlisle in 1911. His parents Thomas and Annie Jane (nee Robinson, m.1875) were living at 45 Pow Street, Wokington in 1911 with his older brother James Boustead Miller (a ‘musician’ aged 27). Ralph’s father Thomas was an engine man (colliery blast furnace). They must have moved to 13 Roper Street by 1914 as we known Ralph enlisted from there in November 1914 and was medically discharged as unfit in April 1915 before going overseas.

 

Ralph married Mary Isabella Wigham in the Cockermouth district in Q4 1923. She was 12 years younger. In the 1939 Census they were living at 39 Ralph Road, Bristol, where Ralph (b.28-05-1890) was a ‘Pianos, wireless, all musical instruments dealer manager’. N.B. on enlistment in November 1914, Ralph’s occupation was ‘Pianoforte dealer’.

 

Ralph’s father Thomas had died at Gatehouse, Flimby on 27 October 1936. 'Ralph Smith Miller' and his sister Margaret Graham are mentioned as executors. Ralph was a ‘musical instrument dealer’. Ralph Smith Miller died at 39 Ralph Road, Ashley Down, Bristol on 15 December 1954, leaving Mary Isabella Miller £1258.

 

The lack of any subsequent (officer) service record and the inconsistent MM ribbon makes me wonder whether the photo was a theatrical setup. Was Ralph into amateur dramatics? Did he entertain the troops? The Roper Street address on the back means it must have been taken before his marriage in 1923.

Edited 9 August , 2020 by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

Confirmation that Ralph Smith Miller was a professional skater in 1910 (occ. on 1911 census too). He was a witness in this article:

 

[Alisonmallen62]

I was beginning to think it was a photo wearing props available at the shop. Unsure if anyone has contacted the owner of the family tree? What area was the junk shop - Bristol?

Edited 9 August , 2020 by Alisonmallen62

[Ivor Anderson]

Good spot Alison. I've just sent the FT owner a link to the photo. 

[headgardener]

3 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Confirmation that Ralph Smith Miller was a professional skater in 1910 (occ. on 1911 census too). He was a witness in this article:

 

 

So, a professional skater who was a witness to the supposed theft of a set of false teeth...... 

 

Is anyone able to confirm whether 119917 Pte. Ralph S. Miller RAMC (as per the MIC's) is Ralph Smith Miller? 

Edited 9 August , 2020 by headgardener

[Ivor Anderson]

He is a Ralph Smith Miller - entitled to BWM & VM on a 2-2-20 RAMC medal roll (on Ancestry). Cannot find more than this and the MIC.

 

Edited 9 August , 2020 by Ivor Anderson

[headgardener]

So, we have a Ralph Smith Miller serving overseas as a Pte in the RAMC sometime between 1916 & 1918. He is almost certainly NOT the same person as Dr Ralph Smith Miller (as per my earlier post) who would have been in his mid 50's by that point and highly unlikely to be serving as an RAMC Pte. 

My guess is that the 119917 RAMC is our man. 

Would be helpful to know how many people in the UK had the name Ralph Smith Miller....... Am pretty sure there won't be many. 

I've checked the Army list for Nov 18 and he's not there. I tried a Google search of the LG under various permutations of his name and initials but couldn't find a match.

Given the address on the reverse of the card, the photo would have to date from sometime between about 1917 and no later than 1923. 

Anyone able to interrogate the LG in a different way, or have access to any post-war army lists? Or find a likely candidate in the MM's? 

Any further thoughts on how to progress this? I reckon the RAMC man is our fellow and that he didn't get the MM and wasn't a 2/Lt in the RA. 

Edited 9 August , 2020 by headgardener

[headgardener]

Update to my last post... 

 

119917 RAMC is definitely our man and can be positively linked to Roper Street. Was serving as Pte in Dec 1918. At work atm., Will post details shortly.....

Edited 9 August , 2020 by headgardener

[David26]

Well done headgardener.  I'd seen but discounted the RAMC man as a coincidence of names since I was looking for an RA officer.  Serves me right for not being sufficiently thorough. 

 

So this leaves the mystery as to why he's had himself photographed wearing an RA officer's uniform.  Just to throw a suggestion into the mix: might he have 'borrowed' it from a patient at the FA / CCS / hospital where he was working? 

 

David.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

You can't see his legs/trousers/puttees/boots in this pic, as if concealed under a big blanket or covering of some type.

Another clue that he only had the to; half of the uniform?

[edwin astill]

Another question: why would the sender of the card send a photo of an officer with whom he has no obvious connection?

 

Edwin 

[headgardener]

11 minutes ago, edwin astill said:

Another question: why would the sender of the card send a photo of an officer with whom he has no obvious connection?

 

Edwin 

 

I suspect that the person who signed the photo is the person in the photo. Why he's wearing that uniform is the main issue, I think.