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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Junk shop picture


Wingcowyn

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I came across this picture in a junk shop. Someone had obviously gone to a great deal of trouble to cut it to fit into the frame so I thought that it deserved to be seen by a wider audience.

There is some writing on it which might offer some clues to his identity. He is a 2nd Lieutenant wearing what appears to be the ribbon of the MM, so promoted from the ranks. I attach some pics and would welcome observations.

Thanks,

Peter

44CEA828-21A0-4E28-B1D7-F7ED948FAE3B.jpeg

CDC48338-0523-4FE8-A8CE-2C7D9EA8F0AB.jpeg

0EFF8ABA-2385-41C2-888B-EDE24E14F3AF.jpeg

7A85E5E4-A47C-4173-9E9D-E268938D2B93.jpeg

D31A7ED5-6A52-4A9F-AF89-2BDF9C835AB1.jpeg

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He’s a 2nd Lieutenant in a branch of the Royal Artillery.

 

He has a soft cap, cuff rank, a single wound stripe on his left lower sleeve, and carries a riding whip, that together suggest Royal Field Artillery, or Royal Horse Artillery circa 1916-17. 

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Is that a wound stripe on his left cuff? Does 13 Roker St, Workington still stand? and my final stab in the dark is does anyone know if a soldier called Ralph or Raphael was registered at said address.

Time for bed,

 

Simon

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With best wishes your old pal Ralph I think it is.  Sapper S Faul..? Faulkner, 7 Derisent St Worthington 

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Hello

 

Says ..

Sapper S Fawcett ? I think... 

7 Derwent St.. and it still exists today

Workington

Edited by johnmelling1979
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Ah brilliant I don’t know the area at all so guessing and a great photo too!

6 minutes ago, johnmelling1979 said:

Hello

 

Says ..

Sapper S Fawcett ? I think... 

7 Derwent St.. and it still exists today

Workington

 

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Sound someone who fits in  and could be him:whistle:

 

Name: Stephen Fawcett
Age in 1911: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Workington, Cumberland, England
Search Photos:  
County/Island: Military
Country: England
Rank: Sapper
Military Unit: Royal Engineers
Registration District Number: 641
ED, institution, or vessel: Arabia, Cyprus, and Gibraltar

 

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Sounds promising

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Alison,

The photo shows an RA officer, the sapper and his address would I imagine be the recipient rather than the subject of the shot.

 

 

Simon

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Yes I realised that

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Found Ralph Smith Millers Army record

 

Age 24

15494 Pte, 

11 Service Battalion, The Borderers Regiment (Lonsdale Battalion)

 

Confirming 13 Roper Street, Workington

 

He was discharged as not being fit for service on 6 April 1915

Edited by johnmelling1979
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Sorry Alison,

my crystal ball evidently clouded over.

 

Simon

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Just now, mancpal said:

Sorry Alison,

my crystal ball evidently clouded over.

 

Simon

No need to apologise I realised the photo was being sent on to a friend and I always love it when a home is found etc etc makes it all even more interesting

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I wasn't

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Ok was just interested will move on

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1 hour ago, mancpal said:

Is that a wound stripe on his left cuff?


Yes - as mentioned in post # 2.

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Having tried Ancestry, the London Gazette, TNA's WO339 and WO374 lists, IWM's LoWW1 and the WO338 register, I'm struggling to find a Ralph Smith Miller (even taking into account alternate spellings of Smyth or Millar) as an officer in the Royal Artillery.

 

The closest I can get is a Temp Lt R S Miller MC who was serving in 1918 and 1919 in the South Africa artillery (see for example: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31591/supplement/12516).  I know little about SA uniforms but might have expected something in the original photo which might have suggested a link there. 

 

I wonder though if a man who had been discharged as not being likely to make an efficient soldier, might have re-enlisted under a false name?

 

David.  

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24 minutes ago, David26 said:

 

I wonder though if a man who had been discharged as not being likely to make an efficient soldier, might have re-enlisted under a false name?

 

Yes, he might, but being commissioned as an officer was a completely different process. The man had to present his birth certificate and get a reference from a person of good standing within the community who had known him for at least 5 years, so that would effectively rule out the possibility of someone becoming an officer under a false name. 

Ralph Smith Miller would have become liable for conscription once the MSA was introduced in 1916, and there are plenty of instances of men who had previously been discharged ending up being conscripted (I know of an example of a man going from discharge as 'not likely to become an efficient soldier' to being killed in action within 18 months due to him being conscripted under the MSA). 

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p.s. It's interesting that you can't find him. Absence from the MIC's could be explained simply by the fact that he never applied for his campaign medals, but there should still be a card for his MM (and, if he won the MM, his o/r services medals would have been issued to him automatically). His officers service file might be missing because he had service post 1921.

As for the other sources, if he was an officer then he'd be in the LG and the army list. 

Intriguing. 

Are we certain that there wasn't another Ralph living at the same address as Ralph Smith Miller? 

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p.p.s. I can’t find an obvious candidate in the MM MIC’s. Regarding the possibility that he’s in the S African Army, the cap and collar badges aren’t right for SA Field Art or SA Hvy Art. I checked a copy of the Nov 1918 Army List and the only RS Miller’s are an RAMC man, an infantry officer and the SA man, and there are no ‘R Smith-Miller’s either. Regarding the photo, I note that he has a sword frog but no sword.

 

I’ll have a look through some other Army Lists later. Hopefully someone else can interrogate the LG website! 

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11 minutes ago, headgardener said:

p.p.s. I can’t find an obvious candidate in the MM MIC’s. Regarding the possibility that he’s in the S African Army, the cap and collar badges aren’t right for SA Field Art or SA Hvy Art. I checked a copy of the Nov 1918 Army List and the only RS Miller’s are an RAMC man, an infantry officer and the SA man, and there are no ‘R Smith-Miller’s either. Regarding the photo, I note that he has a sword frog but no sword.

 

I’ll have a look through some other Army Lists later. Hopefully someone else can interrogate the LG website! 

 
It’s been suggested to me in a PM that the RAMC man relates to the Roper St address on the back of the photograph, which if true might offer a clue.

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5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 
It’s been suggested to me in a PM that the RAMC man relates to the Roper St address on the back of the photograph, which if true might offer a clue.

 

Well, that might make some sense as Google told me repeatedly that there was a Dr called Ralph Smith Miller, although I dismissed him as they aren't an exceptional set of names and I hadn't linked him to that address. But maybe it is him. In which case, how to explain the uniform + medal ribbon in the photo? (I'm going to resist the obvious temptation, btw.... 😉

 

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1 minute ago, headgardener said:

 

Well, that might make some sense as Google told me repeatedly that there was a Dr called Ralph Smith Miller, although I dismissed him as they aren't an exceptional set of names and I hadn't linked him to that address. But maybe it is him. In which case, how to explain the uniform + medal ribbon in the photo? (I'm going to resist the obvious temptation, btw.... 😉

 


Yes, it’s a real conundrum.  Perhaps PRC can solve it.

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