A/Sgt. 20981 John Morrison, Machine Gun Corps

[Radcliffe]

Hi

 

I am in the process of researching the life of A/Sgt.Morrison.  He was my maternal great grandfather and he served in the Lancashire Fusiliers prior to transferring to the Machine Gun Corps in 1916.  His medal card indicates that he was discharged on 20.2.1919 under "Section B, A.R.".  I've been unable to confirm what this means.  Anecdotal accounts suggest that he was incapacitated (he died in 1927) but I've no primary evidence to support or refute this.

I would be very grateful if somebody could provide an explanation for his discharge.

 

Thanks in advance.

[BillyH]

I think this is Section B, Army Reserve

see the Long Long Trail here : https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/enlisting-into-the-army/british-army-reserves-and-reservists/

 

BillyH.

[david murdoch]

Not seeing him on a casualty list and he was not discharged due to wound or sickness - or he would show a Silver War Badge. Also no pension card for him.

Where was he from and where did he die?

[kenf48]

Pte 2469 J. Morrison, 2nd Lancashire Fusiliers (12th Infantry Brigade 4th Division) was admitted to Toxteth Park Military Hospital on the 17th May 1915. He had been "gassed".

He entered theatre, France and Flanders on the 22nd August 1914.  He was a regular soldier.

 

On 3rd July 1916 he was admitted to 6 General Hospital Rouen suffering from a burn on his arm, a not uncommon injury for a machine gunner.  By this time he was serving in 86 Company MGC 86 Brigade 29th Division.  The 1st Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers was in in 86 Brigade.

 

So a rough timeline of his service is :-

 

enlisted Lancashire Fusiliers, ? (not sure probably around 1909/10) will look again later unless someone can pin it down more accurately (thanks Peter)

served with 2nd Battalion in France and Flanders from 22 August 1914

Gassed at 2nd Ypres and repatriated to the UK

On recovery posted to the 1st Battalion. The 86 Company MGC was formed at Suez from the existing Machine Gun Sections of the Battalions in the Brigade on  27 February 1916.

According to the medal rolls the sequence shows his number dates from the formation of the Company.  The Brigade landed in France from Egypt on 20th March 1916, arriving at Abbeville the following day.  It is possible he was posted on paper to the 1st Bn in the UK and then to the 86 Coy MGC but did not join the Company until they joined the BEF in March

March.

Posted as above to Army Reserve B on completion of engagement which was extended by the war.

 

You could obtain his death certificate if not already done so, sometimes a friendly doctor, especially in the 1920s, would attribute cause of death as exacerbated by war service.

 

 

 

[PRC]

2 minutes ago, kenf48 said:

Pte 2469 J. Morrison, 2nd Lancashire Fusiliers

 

Paul Nixon's site shows the number as being issued between the 12th January 1911 (2292) and the 16th September 1912 (2652). So if he signed up for a standard twelve year stint, (and his health held out), he would have been in until 1923 - in which case his records should be held by the Ministry of Defence.

https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/07/lancashire-fusiliers-regular.html

 

Radcliffe,

 

With a date of birth, some kind member may be able to check Ancestry for the list of Service Records held for those men born before 1901 who stayed in the Army after 1920. After that the process for applying for his records is set out here:-

https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records

As he would be well over 100 I'm told you shouldn't have to prove he is dead, but I've no direct experience of going down that route.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[kenf48]

9 hours ago, PRC said:

So if he signed up for a standard twelve year stint, (and his health held out),

 

Thank you Peter,

 

Radcliffe

 

To clarify the twelve year stint was typically seven years with the colours and five on the reserve, though the seven years was extended due to wartime service.  S as Peter said well worth checking as above.

[PRC]

12 hours ago, Radcliffe said:

Anecdotal accounts suggest that he was incapacitated (he died in 1927) but I've no primary evidence to support or refute this.

 

10 hours ago, kenf48 said:

You could obtain his death certificate if not already done so, sometimes a friendly doctor, especially in the 1920s, would attribute cause of death as exacerbated by war service.

 

If he died suddenly there is also the possibility that a coroners inquest was held so worth checking contemporary newspapers. Same source might give an obituary or even just a death notice in the BMD announcements that could included a snippet about service. Also worth checking online sourced for a picture of a headstone - it's not unknown for families to feel so strongly about things that an insightful comment is included.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

[Radcliffe]

Thanks for all your assistance.

John became a miner upon leaving school.  In 1911, he was living and working in Wakefield as well as supporting his mother.  At least one of his siblings died in a workhouse - his father possibly met the same fate.  He enlisted in the Lancs Fusiliers in about 1912 and underwent basic training at Wellington Barracks, Bury, Lancashire.  His posting to the Machine Gun Corps coincided with his marriage to my maternal great grandmother in 1916; he is described as a "soldier - Machine Gun Corps" on the marriage  certificate.  What remained of his life is shrouded in anecdote and mystery.  My maternal grandmother was born in 1917; my great aunt was born in 1927, about 6 weeks before John died at the age of 34.  He is buried with his wife in Bury Cemetery.

Ancestry has proved to be an invaluable source because it enabled me to track down his siblings and parents.

John's background was incredibly difficult but he seems to have found a home in the army.  I never cease to be amazed at the fortitude and courage of people like him.

 

Thanks again for all your help.

[PRC]

2 hours ago, Radcliffe said:

My maternal grandmother was born in 1917

 

Has the birth certificate been checked for fathers occupation - could be no more than Soldier, Machine Gun Corps, but could be much more.

 

Sounds like he can be very much tied down to the Bury, Lancashire area. Unfortunately doesn't look like the Absent Voters lists for Bury for 1918 & 1919 are on line. Should be a hard copy at the British Library, but definately worth checking the local reference library. AVL's weren't always a separate document - sometimes they were incorporated into the main Electoral Register. It's also possible that his wife was entitled to vote, so worth checking for her as a way to find him.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

 

I couldn't obviously find a reference to him in the Newspapers on FindMyPast, either during the war years or around the time of his death. Others hopefully will have more luck.

 

I also couldn't see a likely civil probate for him.

 

Cheers

Peter

[Radcliffe]

7 hours ago, PRC said:

 

Has the birth certificate been checked for fathers occupation - could be no more than Soldier, Machine Gun Corps, but could be much more.

 

Sounds like he can be very much tied down to the Bury, Lancashire area. Unfortunately doesn't look like the Absent Voters lists for Bury for 1918 & 1919 are on line. Should be a hard copy at the British Library, but definately worth checking the local reference library. AVL's weren't always a separate document - sometimes they were incorporated into the main Electoral Register. It's also possible that his wife was entitled to vote, so worth checking for her as a way to find him.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

 

I couldn't obviously find a reference to him in the Newspapers on FindMyPast, either during the war years or around the time of his death. Others hopefully will have more luck.

 

I also couldn't see a likely civil probate for him.

 

Cheers

Peter

 

He was in the MGC when my grandmother was born but a copy of my great aunt's birth cert.may at least give me his occupation just before he died. I think my next steps will involve obtaining copies of these documents.  

 

Thanks for the advice.

[BillyH]

11 hours ago, Radcliffe said:

He was in the MGC when my grandmother was born but a copy of my great aunt's birth cert.may at least give me his occupation just before he died. I think my next steps will involve obtaining copies of these documents.  

 

If you get the birth certificate order the pdf version, it's cheaper and contains all the same information.

 

BillyH.

[Radcliffe]

46 minutes ago, BillyH said:

 

If you get the birth certificate order the pdf version, it's cheaper and contains all the same information.

 

BillyH.

 

OK, thanks for the tip.