Bayonets

[Craigwils]

Hi I would very much appreciated any information about some bayonets I’ve found in my late father’s possessions three in total I’ve not got a clue what they are or what year there are from thank you in advance  

[JMB1943]

Craigwils,

 

Welcome to the GWF.

 

Photos 1-3: German, WW1 period, made by the Heller Brothers Co.

Photo 4: British, Pattern 1888, cannot see maker's name; could be (Royal Small Arms Factory) Enfield, Mole, Sanderson or Wilkinson. Cannot tell from the pictures.

Photos 5-6: this double-curved sword-bayonet is called a "yataghan" shape (Turkish for man lying down). First popularized in Europe by the French Army in 1842, and marked on the spine of  the blade with the manufacturer's name.

Many nations made them, so a close -up photo of the cross-guard , together with dimensions (length overall, blade length) is necessary for full identification.

 

Regards,

JMB

[Edit: one of the experts will be along to give you chapter & verse on the German bayonet.]

Edited 4 August , 2020 by JMB1943
typo

[AndyBsk]

The first one is german S84/98nA, should be marked on spine of blade, i assume Gebr.Heller used a different maker blade. The frog is bavarian.

The last one piece is sabre yataghan bayonet M1866 Chassepot probably, but could be too other country or different model, any pictures of handle spine where is the rifle adapter slot?

[MikeyH]

Agree with JMB's comments, re. Photo 4, the bayonet has had replacement

wooden grips fitted.  Originally these would have been secured by brass

rivets.

 

Mike.

[Chasemuseum]

1. S84/98nA  - this is a WW1 German example, one of the various bayonets to fit the G98 and K98 series 7.92mm Mauser rifles. This bayonet became the standard German bayonet during WW2.  These usually have a two digit date stamp on the top edge of the spine near the cross guard. eg 18 for 1918

 

2. P1888 Mark II. Replaced wood grips, incorrect scabbard.  British bayonet adopted in 1888 for the (Long) Lee Metford and Lee Enfield series of .303 calibre rifles. manufacturers name and date of manufacture eg 11   94   monarchs crown and initials as well as various proof and repair marks are normally stamped on the blade near the cross guard. Repair and reproofing often obliterates the original marks.  The Mark II  has the oil hole drilled through the pommel, often down as a refurbishment repair to a Mk I*, some time after 1902.  Still used in WW1 as a reserve grade weapon and in the case of New Zealand as a front line weapon at the start of the Gallipoli campaign.

 

3 Chassepot mlle 1866 - French bayonet for the 1866 Chassepot needle rifle. Manufactured in very large numbers, with large quantities capture by the German (Prussian) Army in the 1871 Franco-Prussian War.  Large quantities modified and reissued with reserve grade weapons by Germany during WW1.  The mlle1866 bayonet was also purchased by a large number of minor countries either from old French stock, captured German stock or newly manufactured in the late c19 for use with a wide variety of rifles. The original French and the German WW1 modified are the most common variants but this series of bayonets is a field of study all of its own.

 

Hope this helps

Cheers

Ross

 

[Craigwils]

Thank you all you guys for your help I think my dad must have got them off my grandad or even great grandad here’s some more pics a bloke offered me £50 for all three is that what they are worth? Thanks again for your help 

[AndyBsk]

The french bayonet is matching which is good, the condition is not extra, the piece was serialed to Chassepot M1866, maker is engraved on spine, Manufacture Imperiale de St.Etienne, March 1868.

The british one looks like Enfield production, crown Edward Rex so the 8/02 could be a production date? late M88 production date, very early Edward reign.

Edited 5 August , 2020 by AndyBsk

[Steve1871]

Hey Craigwils

If someone offered you £50 for all 3, he just trying to rip you off.The first one, mauser 84/98nA looks in very good shape, more common ‘Cross the pond there in U.K. and Europe, viewing prices from various sites/shops I buy from here in America and a few in U.k., U would think £150 to 250 with that very crisp Football logo, ( Would look good in my humble collection), the Chasspot maybe around the same, no see if German mod. Hilt, the P1888, lot deep pitting, will not guess on that

 

I would suggest you, since you know the models now, simply look up on line, see what various sellers are asking and maybe try sell at 10-15-% off or offer to these sites with better idea on price range, 

just my poor little opinion. Good luck

[AndyBsk]

The Chassepot with so chemical cleaning of rust is probably unreal even matching over 150.

[Chasemuseum]

7 hours ago, Steve1871 said:

would think £150 to 250

My thoughts exactly. Here in Oz that bayonet, in that condition, with scabbard and frog should bring about the GBP 250.

The P88 Mk II is really hard to value due to the replaced grips and general condition. I have been looking for one to buy but would not touch that one due to condition. I expect to pay about GBP150 when I find the right one. A nice one was sold recently in Perth WA for about GBP180 (more than I would pay). Your example as a project to restore, the right buyer may pay GBP40.

 

So GBP 50 for the lot - tell him "he's pullin the pud".

 

Cheers

Ross 

[trajan]

The Heller one with the football boot and ball mark is a rare variety... 

 

On value, I don't tread in such waters but GBP 50 for all is a rip-off price. I don't have an example of that Heller marking, and would be very happy to find one.

 

Trajan

[Craigwils]

Thank you everybody for your information it is very much appreciated cheers 

Edited 6 August , 2020 by Craigwils