Deciphering Words in War Diary.

[MaxD]

Haven't been able to entirely read the unreadable but the context indicates the entries are administrative and don't really affect his service story.

 

Herewith for what it is worth:

 

18 05 1915 – the initial is an H (Heavy) not R (reserve). 

 

Absent for 9.30 ? found in billet at ? – absent from 9 30 pm found in billet at 6am  (Similar to the first offence, 9 30pm must have been the time everyone was supposed to be in barracks (tattoo) , he wasn’t but was there next morning.

 

July 1915 the a a is Army Act (the reference section defined the powers of a CO to fine people)

 

N Midland CCS was No 53 CCS – locations here:

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/locations-of-british-casualty-clearing-stations/

 

The move of one section of 123 Hy Bty to 1/1^st N Midland Hy Bty is formally recorded in WO 95/5494 the official document that shows the allocations of, among others, heavy batteries to groups etc.

 

I’d query the wording Within this time frame (14-02-1917 to the 01-11-1918) on the - 22nd Dec 1917 became 41st Heavy Artillery Group 1st February 1918 becomes 41st Mobile Brigade.

 At the time (Feb 1917) the section joined 1/1^st N Midland the latter was in 52 Heavy Artillery Group.  There were a number of changes of HAG until 22 Dec 1917 when the battery (1/1^st) joined 41 HAG.  The line in the 41 HAG diary on 22 Dec 1917 “forming the 41^st Brigade RGA” is a bit misleading as it had been in existence since March 1916.  However, 17 Dec 1917 is the date when the Heavy Artillery Groups (called that since April 1916) became again Artillery Brigades RGA – this may be what the diary is indicating.

 

I don’t recognise the reference  to 1 Feb 1918 and 41^st Mobile Brigade.  There is nothing in the war diary to that effect and “Mobile Brigade” is not a term related to heavy batteries or artillery groups

 

The US Rouen hospital in Nov 1918 (St Louis) was blistered on to the British No 12 General Hospital https://www.pinterest.com/pin/295196950559906988/

 

Leave on 15 Mar 1918   - RA is here Ration Allowance, money to buy his food while on leave.

 

Plate 1076 – the date is 27 Jan 19, detail unreadable but may be transfer from casualty list…

.

Plate 1076 3 2 19 – unreadable

 

The sentence with “office” is on an office memo sheet and is recording the inter office transfer of his Army Form B 103 (Casualty Form Active Service)

 

Max

 

 

[Kim Jones]

Hi Max,

Thank you so much for your hard work, I really appreciate it, the records are not easy to read.

 

The paragraph 'I query the wording' came about through some research and help from this forum.  The next paragraph 'I don't recognise the reference'  I got from Wikipedia when I googled 1/1 North Midland HB.  I have attached a file which I put together to include in my research and a screenshot of the 22 Dec 1917 WO-95-472-2 war diary.   I hope I have been on the right track with my findings.  Would you be able to advise the best way to rephrase the wording of the query paragraph?

 

I have also attached a screenshots from the WO-95-472-4 diary, this is the 1/1 North Midlands HB, within the time frame grandad was with them.  I am unable to transcribe the words underlined and would appreciate you help there please.

 

Thanks again for filling in the gaps in Grandad's records, It really helps to paint a picture.

 

Regards,

Kim.

 

 

 

 

[MaxD]

The words you have underlined are the ones I was referring to as misleading and I acknowledge that they say....."forming the 41st Brigade RGA".  Going back a bit in the day's entry it is saying that 242 and 255 Siege Batteries left the Brigade [while] one section (to complete the Battery) of 1 Siege , 6 Siege, and 1/1st N Midland joined......In effect it is saying "the composition of the Brigade is now, after 242 and 255 Siege have gone, the whole of 1 Siege, 6 Siege and 1/1st N Midland Hy".

 

In your piece, the problem word is "became" - "On 22 December 1917 it (ie 1/1st) jojned 41 Heavy Artillery Group" -   However, I am unsure why you would want to pick out that one particular move of all those made by 123 and 1/1st.   You haven't identified the moves of 123 Hy Bty before it was broken up and from Feb 1917 when it (1/1st) joined 52 HAG, there were 9 changes of groups before it landed with 41 HAG. 

 

 

28 T 11 d is the battery location, on the link at:https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=50.75307&lon=2.85617&layers=101464933&b=1 - bottom right quadrant of square T 11 in the Douve Valley north west of Ploegsteert Wood.

 

Engaging hostile batteries  (one of the prime tasks of heavy batteries)  Left and Centre sections (the battery would have been deployed in 3 two gun sections)

South Section position

No 2 gun  (number 2 gun)

bent the axle 

During [the] period

Counter-battery (proper technical term interchangeable for engaging hostile batteries)

 

I see the reference to 41st Mobile Brigade and 1 Feb 1918 in the Wikipedia article.  The date given is covered in 472/2 which you have and there is nothing in Feb/March 1918 to support it. I see one of the sources Wiki quotes is WO 95/5494/2 which is the allocations that you reproduced above - it isn't there.  The other source it quotes is Farndale's History of the Royal Artillery which I don't have currently.  My inclination would be to ignore this.   Alternatively post the Wikipedia  sentence on this forum to see what the experts say about it, I don't recognise the term.

 

Max

 

Edited 9 August , 2020 by MaxD
map ref corrected

[Kim Jones]

Hi Max,

 

Thank you for this info. I will take a look at it and hopefully sort out any mistakes, at the moment I am a bit confused (paragraph 2), may be I have used the wrong wording 'become' in my research from Wikipedia .  

 

The last paragraph.  I defiantly found the above info highlighted in yellow in the war dairy WO 95/5494/2, a member of this forum was kind enough to pass this on.

 

I have not come across Farndale in my research. 

 

Thank you for filling in the gaps in the other dairy I am transcribing, it helps a lot.

 

This is all very new to me, I appreciate your help,  I will look at this again tomorrow  

 

Kim.

[Kim Jones]

Sorry Max, I ment definately not what auto text put in my reply above, 2nd paragraph.  Kim. 

[MaxD]

Kim

 

I have no argument with the text you highlighted in the war diary.  To shorten what you wrote originally : "1/1st N Midland became the 41st Brigade RGA".  What happened in December 1917 was not only the change of composition of the group but also, as I stabbed at earlier, the change of nomenclature of the whole formation from 41 Heavy Artillery Group to 41 Brigade RGA.  The title pages at the beginning of each month reflect that change.  Confusingly, the war diaries all use the form "brigade RGA" even when they were actually Groups. and there is little consistency across all HAGs or Bdes RGA!.

 

So again as I suggested, if you changed the "became" to "joined" that would be a correct statement, but I don't see why you should wish to do this at all.  1/1st had already changed HAG innumerable times since the section of 123 Hy Bty joined it and you, rightly, haven't recorded each of these changes or the changes to 123 Hy Bty groupings beforehand.  My suspicion is you were looking at the entry as changing the title of 1/1st which was not the case.

 

These formations of Siege and Heavies had begun life as Brigades Royal Garrison Artillery becoming Heavy Artillery Groups in April 1916 and reverting to Brigades RGA in Dec 1917 (extract is from WO95/5494  

 

Farndale was General Sir Martin Farndale an eminent Gunner and in this context author of the umpteen volume History of the Royal Regiment of Artillery.  Here the volume "Western Front 1914-1918 " is being cited.  It is not unknown for Farndale to have the odd error!  (For Gunner readers only - please don't mention the Museum)

 

Max

 

Max

[Kim Jones]

Hi Max

I appreciate your continued explanations and hopefully have a clearer view.

The research I am doing is based on where Grandad was during the times in his service records.

My mistake seems to be using the word 'become' incorrectly, which I will change.

 

Am I understanding it correctly in saying that Grandad was transferred from 123 HB to 1/1 North Midlands HB on the 14/2/17. He stayed with 1/1 North Midland HB until he fell sick with influenza on the 1-11-18 and was admitted to hospital, after then he was transferred to 1/1 Wessex, which I have no info on so far.  

 

If this is correct I will delete the explanation with the word 'became' and change my wording in the file to - The 1/1 North Midland HB joined the 41st Brigade RGA on the 222nd Dec 1917 and this is where I start my transcript on the war diary.

Thanks in advance,

Kim.

[MaxD]

KIm

 

That is exactly it.  He wasn't transferred alone but with the section of 123 Hy Bty that moved into 1/1st N Midland on 14 Feb 1917 and yes, 1/1st then joined 41st Brigade RGA on 22 Dec 1917.  Have you really transcribed all the war diaries for all the other HAGs 1/1st was in from Feb 1917 to Dec 1917 and 123 Hy Bty's before that also (for the periods he was with them) - wow!

 

I think you have this from Chris earlier - 1 Wessex Hy Bty was in 86 Brigade RGA from 8 Jan 1918.  Their war diary to Mar 1919 is here:

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/49946a2b163f46bc947f8885beea5797

 

(I  have corrected a minor slip in my post #31 - T 11 d is the bottom right (south east) quadrant of square T 11 not left.

 

Max

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 August , 2020 by MaxD
additions

[Kim Jones]

Morning Max,

I'm so pleased I have that sorted out in my head, I thought I had before but that one word through it all out.

I have only transcribed 2 sections so far, the first was war diary WO-95-472-4, 1/1 North Midlands, HB, dates I transcribed was between 01/07/1917 to the 31/07/1917, also October 1917.  The second, war diary WO-95-472-2, I transcribed from 22nd December 1917 to the end of March 1918. Both these you have helped fill in a few unreadable, which I appreciate.  I haven't come across any others diaries yep, still searching, they are either to early, overseas or I can't find anything within Grandad time frame.  I will check out the link you sent, thank you.  I don't expect to be able to fill in Grandad's whole time while serving, that would be impossible, but it is nice to know a little and build a picture for future generations. 

Kim.

[MaxD]

KIm

 

You are right - transcribing the parts of each HAG diary for when Grandad was with them would really be something of an endeavour,   From Feb 1916 when he joined 123 Hy Bty  in France, the battery was in no less than six different groups (the first was a divisional artillery) and after he joined 1/1st N Midland with his section from 123 Hy Bty in Feb 1917 until it joined 41 HAG in Dec 1917 there were eleven groups (some of them twice).  That would mean about 15 diaries, with each of which the task would be to focus just on the time frame when each battery was there.  This is what Chris was guiding you to in your other thread.

 

7 hours ago, Kim Jones said:

I haven't come across any others diaries yep, still searching,

 

See my message to you.

 

Rgds

 

Max

[Kim Jones]

Hi Max,

 

I have replied to you message, thank you.

 

I did have the diary above, and I couldn't see anything for the 23rd - 28th Dec 1918, other than the 27th and it looks like training. I wasn't sure if I was on the right path with is one.

 

I also checked out the map you sent.  Sorry that is way above my ability, I didn't understand it

 

I really appreciated the help and explanations Chris gave me, I still go back to those posts to check info.  I think I worn out my welcome there, as I do ask a lot of questions. Everyone is very knowledgeable here, and I appreciate all you help.

 

Kim.

 

 

 

[MaxD]

Sorry Kim  I meant to add a bit of info to the map.  The aim was to show  where Grandad was to be found on 15 July 1917 and some days following should you ever wish to visit.

 

The map is a "trench map" of the time.  If you zoom out a bit you can see over on the right hand side Messines which is the area where the Battle of Messines Ridge took place in June.  At that time 1/1st N Midland were in 99 HAG and along with the other batteries in the HAG had played their not inconsiderable part in  providing fire in the preparation for the attack. The spiders webs running north and south of Messines are the British trench lines in blue and the enemy in red.

If you use the blue slider button on the left of the map it brings up the present day image.   The screenshot attached plots the location (courtesy TMapper and NLS maps) below the village of Wulverghem .  Hopefully that makes it easier to read.

 

Reply to your PM in preparation.

 

Max

[Kim Jones]

Hi Max,

I couldn't find a paperclip in the message section but I knew this one was there  

I think grandad has a 3 chevron on his right sleeve, may be you could confirm that for me please, also the colours, was it blue?. Not sure what the two on his left sleeve are. Can you tell me anything about the uniform? did the lanyard mean anything? 

Thanks 

Kim.

 

[MaxD]

His uniform is standard issue for a man who served in Heavy Batteries. RGA  The lanyard is part of the uniform, originally issued to all soldiers in some form or another with a clasp knife on the end in the pocket.  The RA lanyard was gussied up a bit to the form you see there, other regiments had different colours and different forms. 

 

The right sleeve has three blue overseas service chevrons as I thought indicating his 3 plus year overseas from early 1916.

 

The inverted chevron is one good conduct badge awarded for two years without formal disciplinary action having been taken or "undiscovered crime" as it was unofficially termed.  Another would have followed after a further 4 years had he served on. 

 

The badge above the chevron has me fooled.  I'll invite an expert to take a look*  background below.

 

Max

 

* The man served in three heavy batteries altogether from August 1914 to March 1919 - service record all known, only the badge is puzzling.

[Kim Jones]

Hi Max,

That's great, thank you.  I think there may be something above the service chevrons on his right sleeve, looks like a bar or may be two, not sure unless it's just the folds in the sleeve.

I have googled the badge so may times and it's foxed me, look forward to hearing what an expert has to say,

Kim.

[MaxD]

With due acknowledgement and thanks to forum member and all round good man Frogsmile who identifies it as an extremely rare badge - a Royal Artillery carriage drivers trade badge,

 

9 hours ago, Kim Jones said:

not sure unless it's just the folds in the sleeve.

 

Folds.  The upper sleeve is where badges of rank go but he was a Gunner, no badge, and they would be on both sleeves if rank badges.
Max

[FROGSMILE]

Looking the badge up in the excellent reference on trade badges, it’s interesting to read that the badge’s title changed in 1909, from ‘skill in driving’ (horse drawn carriages), to ‘whips crossed and spur’ and at the same time extended its use from RA, to RE too.  It was intended that the best driver (1st place) in a battery had the badge with a small crown above, and 2nd place with a star above.  The 3rd place was intended to wear the badge alone.  Although that was the intent, it seems from the paucity of photos showing them in wear that the more elaborate badges were only rarely seen.

 

NB.  There was a separate badge comprising just one whip and spur that was awarded in the same way to drivers of Arms other than RA and RE.

Edited 13 August , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Kim Jones]

Hi Max and Frogsmile.

 

WOW, you members are fantastic.  When I woke to this this morning it was like a moment from one of my favourite shows 'Who do you think you are'. Can't thank you both enough.  I took another look at grandads photos and I see he is wearing spurs on his shoes, didn't notice that until now. 

In Grandads papers on a sheet marked Protection Certificate & Certificate of Identity form under Specialist Military Qualifications it has Driver.  I always wondered about this. I am guessing he drove the horses that pulled the guns....or could you explain it to me in better terms, I'm just putting the pieces together.  Would you also know what the badge would be on the shoulder strap. I know it's not easy to see, but thought it might be a standard one for the uniform. I also see he is wearing riding breeches, didn't notice that until I looked at the photo of him sitting, again if I am wrong please correct me.  I think I will include in my file a page were I can describe his uniform he's wearing on his wedding photos,so any tips appreciated. 

 

Thanks again, that was a proud moment finding this out about the badge. 

Kim.

 

[MaxD]

Kim

 

Yes, the guns he served were horse drawn and he had qualified to be one of the drivers of a team.  His record identifies his rank as a Gunner though rather than a Driver pure and simple (the Royal Artillery had both) so this was an additional qualification meaning he was both trained for the guns and as a driver.

 

The shoulder titles would be RGA.  I am unsure whether the 1/1st N Midland Hy Bty (which he was in when he married) had the name and the T for Territorial but it doesn't look big enough to be similar to the ones in the images here :https://www.bing.com/images/search?q= north midland RGA shoulder title&qs=n&form=QBIR&sp=-1&pq=north midland rga shoulder title&sc=0-32&cvid=DB39ED83CE1F4703A0FCA5571B548BDF&first=1&scenario=ImageBasicHover

 

Max

 

 

[Kim Jones]

Hi Max,

I agree his main rank is as a Gunner, it's towards the end of his paperwork on the 'Statement as to Disability' paper it reads gun/dvr....good to see he multi tasked. 

These shoulder badges do look to big, his looks like it has a bar at the bottom and and something arched above.

Kim.

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, Kim Jones said:

Hi Max,

I agree his main rank is as a Gunner, it's towards the end of his paperwork on the 'Statement as to Disability' paper it reads gun/dvr....good to see he multi tasked. 

These shoulder badges do look to big, his looks like it has a bar at the bottom and and something arched above.

Kim.

 

It’s possible that the T has been removed leaving just RGA and the regional or county designation.  After conscription was introduced in 1916 it became common for the T to be dispensed with, although as an organisation the Territorial Force continued throughout the war.  Interestingly they struggled somewhat with recruitment for some time as their terms and conditions of service were inferior to those of both, regular army and war-service only (‘New Army’) recruits, although very latterly that was resolved.

NB.  There was also a metal version of the badge on your grandfather’s forearm.

Edited 13 August , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[MaxD]

It certainly looks as if there is a curved piece above something but that is the wrong way round for the RGA and the county to appear - unless there were variations??

 

Max

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, MaxD said:

It certainly looks as if there is a curved piece above something but that is the wrong way round for the RGA and the county to appear - unless there were variations??

 

Max

I’m not sure what the lady poster can see Max, but you’re quite right that the curve was always beneath the RGA/RHA/RFA and there was no variation that I’m aware of.

 

[Kim Jones]

Thanks so much for your time Max & Frogsmile.

I know this is a long shot but what do you think, or an I clutching at straws? I had to attache the whole photo because if I cropped it went to pixelated, you will have to zoom in to the shoulder to see. 

Kim.

 

Edited 13 August , 2020 by Kim Jones

[Kim Jones]

This screenshot may be better ?