Identity disks

[Sharonp]

Hi all, 

 

I received a couple of id disks recently as a gift. Could I ask for any help to make sure they are definitely WW1 and any other info would be greatly appreciated. I’m having trouble locating any information on either of them. 

 

Thank you as always. 

 

Sharon.  

 

 

[headgardener]

The 2nd disc is WW1 (it references the man’s unit as ‘ASC’, which was superceded by the RASC in 1918. Can you provide a better image?

The 1st pair of discs is definitely inter-war or possibly WW2 (the number corresponds to the numbering system introduced by the British aarmy in, off the top of my head, 1920 or 21).

Edited 1 August , 2020 by headgardener

[ZIL]

I would query the top two..the shapes are right but the number appears too long.Secondly no unit it shown.

The second photo is badly out of focus but the content looks right.Any chance of a better photo.There are many on Forum who have a greater knowledge in this field

Zil

[ZIL]

Thanks head gardener...I posted just as your reply sent.....I have no knowledge of interwar years etc.

Zil

[headgardener]

20 minutes ago, ZIL said:

Thanks head gardener...I posted just as your reply sent.....I have no knowledge of interwar years etc.

Zil

 

Up to and including WW1 the various regiments and corps had their own individual ‘regimental number’ systems, meaning that lots of different men in differing regiments might all have the same number. After WW1 the army introduced a single ‘service number’ system encompassing all the different constituent parts of the army. Typically, the longest WW1 regimental numbers were 6 digits while the post-1921[?) Army numbers reached 7 or more digits.

Edited 1 August , 2020 by headgardener

[headgardener]

Actually, I just remembered that the nes system started at 1 and kept going. Initially blocks of numbers were assigned to regiments and corps, but the original number blocks already reached 7 digits about half-way through their initial allocation to the various regiments. Once the regimental numbers were used up new numbers were issued sequentially irrespective of unit.

Edited 1 August , 2020 by headgardener

[ZIL]

Thanks..I follow what you have posted but, and I am totally reliant on Chris Baker and The Long Long Trail...that these were seven digit numbers..this number is eight or am I missing something?

zil

[headgardener]

14 minutes ago, ZIL said:

Thanks..I follow what you have posted but, and I am totally reliant on Chris Baker and The Long Long Trail...that these were seven digit numbers..this number is eight or am I missing something?

 

The post-1921(?) numbers started at 1 and were allocated in blocks to the various regiments anD corps. By the time the army had allocated blocks to about half the various regiments the numbers had already reached 7 digits. So the first wave of post war numbers varied from 1 right up to about 8000000. Once all the various numbers in each block had been used up I understand (someone correct me if I’m wrong on this) that they started to be issued sequentially (so, increasing gradually from 7-digit numbers to 8-digit numbers) and I think that sequential series continued right up until about 20 years ago (by the late 1970s they’d reached about 24000000). The army now use a different system.

EDIT: I hope that makes sense! Do tell me if what I’ve posted is completely unintelligible !

Edited 1 August , 2020 by headgardener

[Sharonp]

Hi

Thank you so much for all of the information. So do you think the first disks a fake? 

 

Ive attached a picture of the single disk. 

 

Thanks once again. 

 

Sharon. X

 

 

[ZIL]

Yes...that that makes sense...didn’t know how far the numbers went. I presume therefore that you search for the number that will give you the unit etc? but I wouldn’t know where to start searching.

zil

[headgardener]

3 minutes ago, Sharonp said:

Thank you so much for all of the information. So do you think the first disks a fake?

 

No, they look genuine, just quite a bit later than WW1. Someone here will know roughly when they date from. My best guess is WW2, but that's not really my field. 

[headgardener]

9 minutes ago, ZIL said:

Yes...that that makes sense...didn’t know how far the numbers went. I presume therefore that you search for the number that will give you the unit etc? but I wouldn’t know where to start searching.

 

I'm not aware of an index for that particular post-war series of army numbers. One probably exists somewhere in the army personnel department but it almost certainly wouldn't be in the public domain I'm afraid. As for WW1 era numbers, the medal index cards provide a partial index, and some regiments (or their modern descendants) may hold registers of recruits in their museum or archive. I think WW1 service records can be searched by regimental number on Ancestry, Find My Past, etc. 

Edited 1 August , 2020 by headgardener

[david murdoch]

WW1 disk comes up with medal card and roll  as Driver Francis Pearson with British War Medal/Victory medal.

[headgardener]

21 minutes ago, david murdoch said:

WW1 disk comes up with medal card and roll  as Driver Francis Pearson with British War Medal/Victory medal.

 

The 'TS' prefix to his number indicates that he was a 'Trade Special' (special enlistment on account of his civilian trade). I *think* they were pre-war enlistments. 

[ZIL]

I cannot add anything to what has been posted.Other searches have come up negative.I appreciate they were a gift but could the giver be approached as to maybe source or background...diplomatically???

Zil

[david murdoch]

24 minutes ago, headgardener said:

 

The 'TS' prefix to his number indicates that he was a 'Trade Special' (special enlistment on account of his civilian trade). I *think* they were pre-war enlistments. 

 His roll does not indicate any other number. TS/7281 discharged with Silver War Badge and has an enlistment date of 10/4/1915. His rank is shown as "s/smith2 and he was an older man in late 30's. TS/2767 also with SWB enlisted  13/4/195 his rank given as "sg.sm" so both being shoeing smiths.

No other records for Francis Pearson other than the medal information. His rank as Driver would indicate driving horse drawn wagons and his religion  per his disc as CE Church of England. If they were a gift from a family descendant of this man could possibly narrow down the area he came from.

Just looking at  the SWB roll for the others TS/3357 has rank "Strapper" and TS/2380 a "Nagsman".

Edited 1 August , 2020 by david murdoch

[headgardener]

17 minutes ago, david murdoch said:

 His rank as Driver would indicate driving horse drawn wagons

 

Just looking at  the SWB roll for the others TS/3357 has rank "Strapper" and TS/2380 a "Nagsman".

 

I *think* ‘Dvr’ was basically his rank - like Pte, Tpr, Gnr, Pnr or Spr depending on the branch/regiment/corps/etc. Sounds like he was shoeing horses rather than driving wagons.

Yes, the other ‘Trade Specials’ would all have had some sort of specific trade that was of value to the ASC.

Edited 1 August , 2020 by headgardener

[Sharonp]

23 minutes ago, ZIL said:

I cannot add anything to what has been posted.Other searches have come up negative.I appreciate they were a gift but could the giver be approached as to maybe source or background...diplomatically???

Zil

They were of eBay apparently. Stated they were WW1 or WW2 I’ve contacted the seller who has now offered a full refund. They over disk was from a more reliable source. Thank you so much for your help though. 👍🏻

[Sharonp]

3 hours ago, david murdoch said:

 His roll does not indicate any other number. TS/7281 discharged with Silver War Badge and has an enlistment date of 10/4/1915. His rank is shown as "s/smith2 and he was an older man in late 30's. TS/2767 also with SWB enlisted  13/4/195 his rank given as "sg.sm" so both being shoeing smiths.

No other records for Francis Pearson other than the medal information. His rank as Driver would indicate driving horse drawn wagons and his religion  per his disc as CE Church of England. If they were a gift from a family descendant of this man could possibly narrow down the area he came from.

Just looking at  the SWB roll for the others TS/3357 has rank "Strapper" and TS/2380 a "Nagsman".

Thank you so much. Your a legend. 

 

Sharon. 

[GWF1967]

5 hours ago, Sharonp said:

They were of eBay apparently. Stated they were WW1 or WW2 I’ve contacted the seller who has now offered a full refund. They over disk was from a more reliable source. Thank you so much for your help though. 👍🏻

Hi, 

 the discs with the 8 digit number are not fake,  they were,I believe, issued to the Highland Regiment and date from after WW2. 

 Great War issued discs show a Regiment/Corps, a new set of discs were issued for each transfer. Post 1921 a man/woman kept the same number throughout his/her period of service; only name, number and religion were recorded on the discs. 

[Sharonp]

Hi Sorry to ask again,

 

Could I have help with another query? I'm trying to find info on a Captain Roland Fletcher, Royal Engineers, I have his Medal Roll Index Card, but I'm struggling to find out any other info.

 

Hope you can help again.

 

Sharon X

[headgardener]

Start a different thread for him including his name, rank and regiment in the heading - you'll get a much wider audience and probably more well-informed responses. 

Edited 5 August , 2020 by headgardener

[clk]

 

Hi Sharon,

 

It looks like he was originally commissioned wef 30.1.1917.

 

 

 

Images sourced from the London Gazette

 

His service file may be this one - link. The 'former reference' number would link to this...

Image sourced from the National Archives - file WO 338/7/17

 

...so possibly served with a Road Construction Company?
 

Regards

Chris

[travers61]

At the risk of straying too far into WW2 realms, I can confirm that 8 digit numbers in the sequence starting 14000000 were first issued in July 1942 to army recruits by the General Service Corps, where recruits did their 6 weeks basic training, before being allocated to a regiment/corps etc, retaining that number throughout their time in the ranks.

By July 1943 numbering had reached 14649782.

http://www.researchingww2.co.uk/army-numbers-british-army-ww2/

 

 

[Sharonp]

On 05/08/2020 at 16:36, headgardener said:

Start a different thread for him including his name, rank and regiment in the heading - you'll get a much wider audience and probably more well-informed responses. 

Thank you Ill do that.

 

Sharon x