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bubbagus

ID my 303 Enfileld

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bubbagus

I have 303 Enfield that I got 40 years ago. It has a lot of markings on various steel parts.  The Number 7030 is the most clear on the right side of the barrel over the breech.  I have never seen a picture of this rifle but its features are shown on many different types and models.  The gun is long. The site is not on the back of the receiver. The adjustable site is on the barrel below the breech.  It has a 10 round magazine.  It is not a sniper rifle or a SMLE I believe.  It believe it has a full stock but there is no wood over the barrel.  It is 44-5 inches long.  

 

I will add pictures shortly

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4thGordons

So is it like this?

MLEa.jpg.ae19f22fa114acdc2a9d5f8232ad0bb3.jpg

 

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bubbagus

Very similar

 

no wood over barrel behind site

back stock has round brass plate held with a screw

rounded wood under barrel end with no protrusion or strap loop or metal cap 

both straps loop screwed into wood stock one a back stock and the other about 8 inches from barrel end

back stock has round brass plate held with a screw but only on the right side

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bubbagus

I blew you picture up and the receiver top of yours is different.  Mine has a cap that I believe a scope mount can be added.

 

pictures downloading to computer

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4thGordons
12 minutes ago, bubbagus said:

Very similar

 

no wood over barrel behind site

back stock has round brass plate held with a screw

rounded wood under barrel end with no protrusion or strap loop or metal cap 

both straps loop screwed into wood stock one a back stock and the other about 8 inches from barrel end

back stock has round brass plate held with a screw but only on the right side

 

The wood behind the site is a handguard and is removable - may just be missing (it is held in place with spring clips)

The round brass plate is probably a unit marker disc

 

7 minutes ago, bubbagus said:

I blew you picture up and the receiver top of yours is different.  Mine has a cap that I believe a scope mount can be added.

 

pictures downloading to computer

 

The "cap" to which you refer may actually be a Charger bridge designed to allow loading of 5 rounds at a time using a charger-clip.

 

If so that means you may have a CLLE like this

CLLEInd.jpg.2a64ee40e98368ccee7ff0badbd777ba.jpg

 

or perhaps given what you say about the stock, a "sportered" version of it -- look forward to the pics.

Is there anything stamped on the right side of the wrist of the rifle (the flat metal under where the bolt sits)

Chris

 

 

 

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bubbagus

I blew you picture up and the receiver top of yours is different.  Mine has a cap that I believe a scope mount can be added.

 

pictures downloading to computer

20200731_142600.jpg

20200731_142609.jpg

20200731_142615.jpg

20200731_142618.jpg

20200731_142625.jpg

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bubbagus

i see 

 

 crown emblem

     maybe CR

     ENFIELD

       1918

S  ( may be a small M ) L E

 

   III with 2 parallel lines to right with a star like stamp over the beginning of the 2 lines

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bubbagus

closer look with cheap magnifier the small M  is a  HT or WT  or even UT

 

C.R. IS BELOW CROWN

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4thGordons
Posted (edited)

You have a sporterized (ie modified)

ShtLE (Short, Magazine Lee Enfield) MkIII* manufactured by the Royal Small Arms Factory at Enfield Lock (London) in 1918.

The GR is for George Rex (King George) who was the monarch when the rifle was manufactured (1918)

 

It should look like this:

smle.jpg.edf2cddaf15ad1ea7170cd9bd932a3a9.jpg

 

But someone has cut down the wood, probably to use as a hunting rifle. This was very common up until about 20 years ago.

Here is one of mine that is similar (although this one was done commercially)

odd1.jpg.3a045c4d7fa430b31a7babfc0c9f428f.jpg

 

Chris

 

Edit: BTW your rifle is cocked -- which makes me nervous even though it is (I trust) unloaded. You can close the bolt without cocking the rifle if you hold the trigger down while you push the bolt home.

Edited by 4thGordons
mention cocked rifle!

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bubbagus

20200731_153135[1].jpg

20200731_153121[1].jpg

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4thGordons

S7030 is the rifle's serial number

The other stampings on the rifle's knox form are British civilian proof marks (showing the rifle passed through the gun trade in the UK at some point)

I didn't notice before that the * had been struck through - this means that while your rifle was manufactured as a MkIII* (mark three star) it was later (probably in the inter-war period) returned to Mark III status (by adding a magazine cut-off which is present on your rifle) This was fairly common as the MkIII* simplification was a wartime expedient.

Is there anything stamped on the other side of the wrist of the rifle, under the safety (maybe something like FR '38 or some such?)

 

Chris

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bubbagus

What is the length of the ShtLE.  looks short mine is 44.5 inches.  was the barrel changed?

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bubbagus

E stamped near safety lever and  27 top right of wrist

 

look like II stamped on mid-top of safety lever 

 

bolt lever may not be original it has a 9008  or  0008 stamped on back

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4thGordons
14 minutes ago, bubbagus said:

What is the length of the ShtLE.  looks short mine is 44.5 inches.  was the barrel changed?

Overall length of the ShtLE is 44.5 inches just as you say (although slightly lengthened butts were available) looks to be the original barrel to me.

6 minutes ago, bubbagus said:

E stamped near safety lever and  27 top right of wrist

 

look like II stamped on mid-top of safety lever 

 

bolt lever may not be original it has a 9008  or  0008 stamped on back

 

E '27 may be when it was reworked (at Enfield 1927)

The safety will be marked III (for MkIII) although it is often very light.

 

Chris

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bubbagus

thank you

 

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bubbagus

another question please.  is there particular mount type that works best for adding a scope.   i only know weaver and piscany but i am there are others.  i use a weaver on my  RUGER 22

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4thGordons

well strictly speaking this might be considered off topic for a WWI discussion --- BUT

During WWI they used a side mounting for the scope, replicas are available but are expensive, as are scopes that work with them.

 

If I were going to mount a scope on this I would get one of the NoDrill mounts which do not require any modification to the rifle - ATI make one, as do S&K. There is quite a lot of discussion of the various pros and cons online.

Chris

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MikB
8 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

well strictly speaking this might be considered off topic for a WWI discussion --- BUT

During WWI they used a side mounting for the scope, replicas are available but are expensive, as are scopes that work with them.

 

If I were going to mount a scope on this I would get one of the NoDrill mounts which do not require any modification to the rifle - ATI make one, as do S&K. There is quite a lot of discussion of the various pros and cons online.

Chris

 

I fitted one of those to my 1917 Mk.III* - I think it was a B-Square? It worked with grubscrews bearing against the rear of the receiver breech ring and the front of the charger bridge. I had a nice Hakko Electrodot 4x40 scope. I bore-sighted it and even put a round up the spout; but in the end I couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger, because I was as sure as I'm writing this now that that scope was going to end up on the floor if I did.

 

So if you try a no-drill mount that works that way, start with a smaller, lighter, cheaper scope... :o

 

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4thGordons
6 hours ago, MikB said:

 

I fitted one of those to my 1917 Mk.III* - I think it was a B-Square? It worked with grubscrews bearing against the rear of the receiver breech ring and the front of the charger bridge. I had a nice Hakko Electrodot 4x40 scope. I bore-sighted it and even put a round up the spout; but in the end I couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger, because I was as sure as I'm writing this now that that scope was going to end up on the floor if I did.

 

So if you try a no-drill mount that works that way, start with a smaller, lighter, cheaper scope... :o

 

I have a couple of Enfields that came to me with scopes mounted on them including several with a no drill (and I believe you are correct one is a B-square) and they have not shifted. None have expensive scopes on them though - I prefer older vintage scopes which are clearly optically inferior but "look the part".

 

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bubbagus

"well strictly speaking this might be considered off topic for a WWI discussion --- BUT" 

 

If the above statement is correct what is the correct Forum for discussing the Lee-Enfield rifle.  I ask this because the rifle was manufactured prior to WWI and after WWI.  

 

 

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4thGordons
2 hours ago, bubbagus said:

"well strictly speaking this might be considered off topic for a WWI discussion --- BUT" 

 

If the above statement is correct what is the correct Forum for discussing the Lee-Enfield rifle.  I ask this because the rifle was manufactured prior to WWI and after WWI.  

 

 

I understood your question to be about a contemporary scope mount for the rifle -- not the rifle itself. Apologies if I was mistaken.

 

There are numerous forums about Enfields specifically (eg Gunboards forum Lee Enfields  ) - many of which I participate in. One of the great strengths of this particular forum (although I admit I find it somewhat inconsistently enforced) is that it maintains a pretty narrow focus on WWI -- so 1) questions about the rifle would be fine, questions about its 2) subsequent use and modification would probably be tolerated as an extension of 1_ - questions about how 3) you might accessorize it now (have previously) been considered off limits so......

 

Cheers,

Chris

 

Edited by 4thGordons

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bubbagus

The last question was about a scope mount but I was not thinking of only a modern mount.  Since scopes had been mounted on these rifle since they began manufacturer I was look to gain historic knowledge plus an answer for today's availability.  I know little about scopes and mounts so my mention of both the Weaver and Picatinny mounts was to show my limited knowledge.  I would prefer to have scope and mount inline with the age and history of this rifle but as someone replied this may be expensive and beyond my budget.

Edited by bubbagus
misspelling

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4thGordons

Here is a video discussion/overview of the a WWI vintage ShtLE with side scope.

 

The first optical sights mounted on Sht LEs were Galilean Sights (see this link and video)

Here are a couple of pics from the Australian War Memorial collection that shows them well.

 

Chris

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bubbagus

Thank You Very Much.  My career was as a Mechanical Engineering Consultant with major interest in History so this is the type of content I desire.

I live in Atlanta Georgia, USA. I am curious but are you in the US, Canada or the UK?

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4thGordons

I'm from the UK but I reside in the US.

I actually spent 7 years 91-98 in Athens Ga in grad school at UGA (and did some work at Ga Tech for a while) so I know Atlanta quite well.

Cheers

Chris

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