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dhubthaigh

Can someone advise this chap's regiment please:

GWF Enquiry.jpg

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FROGSMILE

It’s an extremely odd shape and I cannot make it out.  The closest that I can think of is a Royal Naval Division petty officers badge, but there’s no arm rank, or other insignia to bear that out.  The bandolier suggests either a corps at mounted duty or a transport section from a dismounted unit.  I’ll be interested to see what others such as Pete (Corporal Punishment) think.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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headgardener

Hard to tell as its such a terrible image. I'd say East Kents or Royal Berks (dragon or something above a scroll? ) 

Any chance of a slightly better shot? Any idea what his name is? 

EDIT: or Queens (R West Surrey's)? 

Edited by headgardener
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dhubthaigh

No name and no better quality image I'm afraid. Thanks for replies, appreciate it's not easy....

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FROGSMILE
8 minutes ago, dhubthaigh said:

No name and no better quality image I'm afraid. Thanks for replies, appreciate it's not easy....

 

The fact that its colouration doesn't match the buttons is fairly significant.  It suggests either a cloth badge (hence my PO comment), or a black metal badge, and the latter are usually matched with black buttons.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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dhubthaigh

This was the image that was sent to me today from the grandaughter of the man on the right. She did not know the identities of the other two men,

The man on the right was Alfred James Hubbard, originally from Kent, who moved to Callander in Perthshire and joined the 6th Black Watch. (From marriage certificate parents were Alfred James & Emily)

Given that East Kent Regiment was put forward I have found on CWGC that an Ernest H Hubbard East Kents transferred to MGC died 2nd December, 1917 - son of Alfred James & Emily.

So I feel sure this was Arthur's brother (1901 census matches) and their father seated....

 

hubbard.png

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FROGSMILE

Looking at this ensemble photo I can now see the ghostlike shape of what might be a Buffs dragon badge, but I’ve never seen a black one - as this seems to be given the stark difference from the buttons.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Possibly father and two sons.  The father? seated is an RAMC man but it almost looks like the badges for the sons? appear to have both been obscured--very odd!

 

The man on the right looks to have a highland badge but it looks more like a sideways '25' or '26'--the chap on the left has no obvious pointers for identification.

 

A real puzzle.

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headgardener

It's got to be the other son with an EKR cap badge the apparent of which has been affected by the photographic process or retouching by the photographer. They are all wearing the simplified tunic dating from 1915 so it's reasonable to assume that's when the photo dates from. The old man has a couple of medal ribbons up, so there's a further avenue of research. 

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dhubthaigh

An address on Ernest's Pension Card matches with the family address on the 1911 census.....

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FROGSMILE
29 minutes ago, headgardener said:

It's got to be the other son with an EKR cap badge the apparent of which has been affected by the photographic process or retouching by the photographer. They are all wearing the simplified tunic dating from 1915 so it's reasonable to assume that's when the photo dates from. The old man has a couple of medal ribbons up, so there's a further avenue of research. 


Yes, I think that sums it up well.  The forage caps are pre-1915 and the simplified jackets initially issued from Autumn 1914 to late Summer 1915.  The older RAMC man, is clearly a veteran, I’m not sure if his two medal ribbons both relate to the 2nd Boer War, but at least one of them might.

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CorporalPunishment

To my eyes that blob of a badge looks as though it might be 25th Royal Fusiliers (Frontiersmen) but that's just a wild stab in the dark. With an image as blurred as that it's all just guesswork really.   Pete.

Edited by CorporalPunishment
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FROGSMILE
1 hour ago, themonsstar said:

I think it is the Buffs, The Royal East Kent Regt.

 


Interestingly not Royal at the time of WW1.  They were finally made Royal in 1935, which seems an odd year to receive the honour and even odder that such an old regiment took so long. 

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Steven Broomfield
1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:


Interestingly not Royal at the time of WW1.  They were finally made Royal in 1935, which seems an odd year to receive the honour and even odder that such an old regiment took so long. 

 

270th anniversary of the formation of The Holland Regiment?

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FROGSMILE
11 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

270th anniversary of the formation of The Holland Regiment?


That would make sense Steven, you’re probably right.  A kind of - what about us, moment.  I did wonder if they’d upset someone...

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Steven Broomfield
5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:


That would make sense Steven, you’re probably right.  A kind of - what about us, moment.  I did wonder if they’d upset someone...

 

I suspect some bright spark quoted the 'Steady the Buffs and hold the Buffs and let the Guards go through ... to a place of safety in the rear' thing in the wrong company.

 

Actually, it's interesting how many famous old regiments had to wait - Lincolns, Leicesters, Hampshires not until after the Second war; Suffolks never.

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FROGSMILE
8 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

I suspect some bright spark quoted the 'Steady the Buffs and hold the Buffs and let the Guards go through ... to a place of safety in the rear' thing in the wrong company.

 

Actually, it's interesting how many famous old regiments had to wait - Lincolns, Leicesters, Hampshires not until after the Second war; Suffolks never.


Yes, and yet others made that a matter of pride.  There’s an untold story I think behind Yorkshire.  East York’s, West York’s, Green Howard’s, Duke of Wellington’s, York & Lancaster, all fine regiments and yet not a ‘Royal’ amongst them, a situation retained today.

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I suppose that you could argue that at least some Yorkshire Regiments were recognised in a slightly different manner.

 

The West Yorks., were known as 'The Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire Regiment)' and The Yorkshire Regiment (aka The Green Howards) were known as "Alexandra, Princess of Wales's Own (Yorkshire Regiment)'--both have quite a ring to them.  And the Yorkshire Light Infantry was of course "The King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry" aka the KOYLI. and the Yorkshire Hussars were "The Yorkshire Hussars, Alexandra, Princess of Wales's Own", and the Yorkshire Dragoons were "The Queen's Own Yorkshire Dragoons".

 

Thus some Yorkshire Regiments were recognised in a slightly more personal way? ---Kings, Queens, Princes and Princesses--can't get much more Royal than that?

 

It is God's own county after all :D 

 

Now which one had that title, "God's Own Yorkshire...........................hmm  :whistle:

 

PS  And a Duke as Well--gedit ? !!

Edited by Old Owl
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FROGSMILE

There was a lot of seeming inconsistency in these things.  The King’s (Shropshire) Light Infantry were with Royal appellation, as was the King’s Own Royal (Lancaster) Regiment and the King’s (Liverpool) Regiment.  Conversely the King’s Own (Yorkshire) Light Infantry was not.  It’s notable that the Lancastrians, who were victorious in the Wars of the Roses and directly associated with the Tudor dynasty were ‘Royal’ from very early on, but Yorkshire, on the losing side, does not have a single Royal regiment despite its long list of candidates.  What might the difference have been if Richard of York had prevailed at Bosworth Field.

 

NB.  Several of the Queen’s and Princesses that you mentioned refer to foreign sovereigns if memory serves me right.  Norway and Denmark (Alexandra) come to mind.

 

P.S.  I have no skin in this.  It just intrigues me and I think that there’s possibly some unspoken rationale behind it.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Steven Broomfield
29 minutes ago, Old Owl said:

 

 

PS  And a Duke as Well--gedit ? !!

 

The only regiment to be named after a non-royal personage, of course.

 

Out of interest (and digressing somewhat), I suppose the Devonshire Regiment (the 11th Foot), followed by the Suffolks (12th) must have been the senior Regiments of Foot never to have had any form of 'Royal' connotation - no King or Queen in the title, no Royal appelation ... just that steady, unfussy, reliable British infantry who do the job and don't make a song and dance about it.

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FROGSMILE
2 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

 

The only regiment to be named after a non-royal personage, of course.

 

Out of interest (and digressing somewhat), I suppose the Devonshire Regiment (the 11th Foot), followed by the Suffolks (12th) must have been the senior Regiments of Foot never to have had any form of 'Royal' connotation - no King or Queen in the title, no Royal appelation ... just that steady, unfussy, reliable British infantry who do the job and don't make a song and dance about it.


Yes, there’s a certain ring to the moniker “The Bloody Eleventh”.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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And another one...The Gloucestershire Regiment. Their Colonel, name of Bragg, once dismissed the parade with, "Not King's nor Queen's, nor Royal Marines but 28th, Old Bragg's, brass before and brass behind. Left turn quick march!

Edited by squirrel
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