tanks3 Posted 23 July , 2020 Share Posted 23 July , 2020 (edited) I am researching Williiam Benjamin Finney. The 1918 absent voters list shows he was a 2nd Lt in the Dragoon Guards. Attached is a photo I have which I believe is of him. Can anyone confirm the cap and collars on the photo are for the Dragoon Guards? Another problem I have is that the only Officer Service papers that I see at TNA relate to a William Banjamin Finney Labour Corps. I need to see the papers to confirm it is the same and one person. Thanks Tanks3 Edited 23 July , 2020 by tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 23 July , 2020 Share Posted 23 July , 2020 (edited) There isn’t a generic ‘Dragoon Guards’ cap badge as there are several different regiments of them. This officer is wearing cap and collar badges that match 6th Dragoon Guards (also known as ‘The Carabiners’). Edited 23 July , 2020 by headgardener Spell check corrected “is” to “isn’t”...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorporalPunishment Posted 23 July , 2020 Share Posted 23 July , 2020 Definitely 6th Dragoon Guards. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 23 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2020 Thanks all. That makes sense as he was a pre-war regular with the 6th Dragoon Guards. Just need to see the service papers I have located now to confirm it is the same man. No MIC or Medal roll for him so assume he did home service only. Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 23 July , 2020 Share Posted 23 July , 2020 38 minutes ago, tanks3 said: Thanks all. That makes sense as he was a pre-war regular with the 6th Dragoon Guards. Just need to see the service papers I have located now to confirm it is the same man. No MIC or Medal roll for him so assume he did home service only. Tanks3 He has a surviving pre war service record on FMP. Enlisted Tpr. 4097. 6th Dragoons, Aldershot 5/5/1899 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headgardener Posted 23 July , 2020 Share Posted 23 July , 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, tanks3 said: No MIC or Medal roll for him so assume he did home service only. O/R’s campaign medals were issued automatically, but officers had to submit a claim for theirs - Many didn’t, so no MIC isn’t a guarantee that he didn’t serve overseas. Edited 23 July , 2020 by headgardener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 23 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 23 July , 2020 Thanks GWF1967. I knew of his pre-war service and have a copy of these papers. It is his Great War Service I am struggling to establish and I think that will be resolved (i hope) when I get access to the papers I have located at TNA. There is nothing for an officer named Finney in the Dragoon Guards and the only likely candidate is to the Labour Corps - same name with a slighly differnt spelling of the second Christian name - so hope it is the same and one person. Good point headgardener. Never thought of that possibility. Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 23 July , 2020 Share Posted 23 July , 2020 (edited) London Gazette 14 August 1917 Supplement 30235 Page 8442: "War Office, I6th August, 1917. REGULAR FORCES. The undermentioned cadets to be temp. 2nd Lts, (attd.)." ....... "Labour Corps" ......"15th July 1917" ...... "William Benjamin Finney" and London Gazette 12 September 1918 Supplement 30906 Page 11146: "Labour Corps" ..... "The undermentioned temp. 2nd Lts. to be actg. Capts., with pay and allces of Lts. while empld. as Adjts.: — W. B. Finney. 27 July 1918." and London Gazette 12 December 1919 Supplement 31689 Page 15597: "Labour Corps" ..... "The undermentioned temp. Lts. relinquish the actg. rank of Capt. on ceasing to comd. P. of W. Cos.: —" ....."15 Nov. 1919." ....... "W. B. Finney." .............. "P. of W. Cos" ........ could this be one of the 47 PW labour companies attached to the Labour Corps on it's formation? Pending the arrival of the info from the TNA I'm putting my money on the story panning out as follows: 4097 Pte W Finney 6 DG entitled to QSA(5). Initials W.B. on E.C. Roll. (Source QSA Medal Rolls) .......... a coincidence and not the man in the photo. Cadet/2Lt/Lt/Capt W.B Finney 6 DG attached Labour Corps ........ the man in the photo with service 1917-1919. no service in operational theatre therefore no medal entitlement/MIC. Edited 24 July , 2020 by TullochArd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 24 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2020 (edited) TullochArd I am fairly sure it is the same person. My research confirms Pre-war WB Finney was born Gateshead and served 6th Dragoon Guards. That ties in with service papers and other documents I have. He served with his Brother H A Finney also 6th Dragoons. H A Finney re-enlists on outbreak of WW1 eventually becoming an officer in the TC. Absent voter list for 1918 attached showing them both now having residence in Yukon Street London SW2, the address of their mother. Also confirms HA Finney officer TC and WB Finney Officer 6th Dragoons The photo I posted was amongst other ephemera I have for him. The Labour Corps papers are the only officer papers I can find for a WB Finney. I did trace the papers for HA Finney TC. However to be 100% certain I agree that I need to see the NA service papers to confirm the situation. Thanks for the above info. Tanks3 Edited 24 July , 2020 by tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 24 July , 2020 Share Posted 24 July , 2020 ........ looks like it from the evidence you have. The photo in the original post dosn't show him wearing a QSA ribbon by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 24 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2020 (edited) TullochArd Yes it does show him wearing a medal ribbon. Here is another photo of him (center) in the rank of Capt. Also shows he is wearing a ribbon and also collars to 6th Dragoons. Officer to the right is HA Finney.He is wearing TC collars and a 1914/15 ribbon (I think). Other officer to the left is brother Wilfred J Finney RCFA. Also I attach rolls for QSA. Am I correct in thinking WB Finney entitled to QSA only with 5 clasps including the 2 date clasps? No KSA entitlement? Tanks3 Edited 24 July , 2020 by tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 24 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2020 TullochArd Actually looking at it again I think the ribbons worn by both WB & HA Finney are the same. I know WB awarded QSA with the 6th Dragoon Guards and I also know HA served in the 6th Dragoons with his brother but I was not able to trace service records for him (Harold Alfred). Maybe HA entitled to QSA too? Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 24 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2020 I have the Canadian service papers for W J Finney. He attained the rank of Lt. Col and was awarded an OBE 1919. Also entitled to 1914/15 star trio with MID (not seenconfirmation of that yet - still working on it!). Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBrook Posted 24 July , 2020 Share Posted 24 July , 2020 Wilfred Josiah Finney O.B.E. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31370/page/6810 M.i.D. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31448/supplement/8815 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 24 July , 2020 Share Posted 24 July , 2020 That's the business Tanks3........ now he looks like a 40 year old bloke and the QSA nails it. 4097 Cpl 6 DG and the Capt W. B. are the same fellow. Regarding the Labour Corps note that the LG records him as "(attd.)" therefore that likely explains the uniform. W.B. was only entitled to the QSA. The fellow on the right also has a QSA. I cannot find a H.A. or W.J. on QSA Rolls but your 6 DG QSA Roll shows a 2087 Cpl J. Finney being awarded a QSA(5) ......J? .......how do we square that circle I wonder? From MICs I've also got Harold Arthur initially as 6270 Cpl, Royal Canadian Horse Artillery then 2Lt/Lt Tanks Corps for 15 Star (to be issued by Canadian Govt), BWM and BVM. You have the Canadian Attestation papers for Wilfred Josiah (Canadian Field Artillery / b. 1886) so there should be similar Attestation docs for Harold Arthur. I've yet to find the MIC for W.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 24 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 24 July , 2020 TullochArd Yes I have the Canadian papers for HA Finney thank you and his MIC. So we have WB Finney pre-war Sgt 6th Dragoon Guards entitled to QSA 5 bars. WW1 Lt./temp Capt 6th Dragoon Guards attached Labour Corps no WW1 entitlement. HA Finney pre-war rank? 6th Dragoon Guards entitled QSA. WW1 Cpl RCHA released on being commissioned in imperial force TC. Entitlement 1914/15 star trio and WJ Finney pre-war RCFA BQMS. WW1 re-enlisted RCHA Lt. For the majority of war served as staff Captain rising to rank of Lt. Col. Entitlement OBE, 1915 star trio MID. Just the officers papers to obtain from TNA for WB and HA to complete the picture. HarryBrook Thanks so much for the links. Briliant. Another piece in the jigsaw. Thank you gents Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 25 July , 2020 Share Posted 25 July , 2020 Good progress Tanks3. If H.A. is somehow J. Finney 6 DG (I certainly can't find any other 6 DG Finnies less W.B. and J.) we know from the QSA medal roll he was a Cpl around 1902 and he was entitled to QSA and 5 clasps same as W.B. The fact that W.B. was OC of a P. of W. Company in the Labour Corps is interesting. These are little recorded units and I'm sure GWF chums would appreciate an update if possible on your post TNA session if anything comes to light. Regards. Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 25 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 25 July , 2020 TullochArd As soon as I am able to get WB's papers from TNA I will of course post an update. In the meantime thanks to all for your comments and assistance Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 20 September , 2020 Author Share Posted 20 September , 2020 TullochArd, I have now obtained a copy of this officers service papers and as promised I am posting this update to show what I have gleaned: William Benjamin Finney served with the 6th Dragoon Guards until his discharge on the 4th May 1911. He rose to the rank of Sargent. He re-enlisted on the 28th March 1917 as a Private in the 6th Reserve Cavalry regiment being promoted to Sargent on the 4th April 1917. He gave his employment at that time as "Cashier". His permanent address was HM Office of Works, Osbourne House, Isle of Wight. On the 22nd May 1917 he joined the Officer Cadet Battalion at Cambridge (which is where, I believe the photo in my original post was taken). Commissioned 15th July 1917 attached Labour Corps. His protection certificate lists his last serving unit as P/W Camp 113 (not sure where that is) in the rank Captain/Adjutant. The LG entry shows he relinquished his commission on the 12th December 1919 on ceasing to command POW Coy 15th November 1919. Hope this is of interest Tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 September , 2020 Share Posted 20 September , 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, tanks3 said: TullochArd, I have now obtained a copy of this officers service papers and as promised I am posting this update to show what I have gleaned: William Benjamin Finney served with the 6th Dragoon Guards until his discharge on the 4th May 1911. He rose to the rank of Sargent. He re-enlisted on the 28th March 1917 as a Private in the 6th Reserve Cavalry regiment being promoted to Sargent on the 4th April 1917. He gave his employment at that time as "Cashier". His permanent address was HM Office of Works, Osbourne House, Isle of Wight. On the 22nd May 1917 he joined the Officer Cadet Battalion at Cambridge (which is where, I believe the photo in my original post was taken). Commissioned 15th July 1917 attached Labour Corps. His protection certificate lists his last serving unit as P/W Camp 113 (not sure where that is) in the rank Captain/Adjutant. The LG entry shows he relinquished his commission on the 12th December 1919 on ceasing to command POW Coy 15th November 1919. Hope this is of interest Tanks3 I suspect he must have been in a scheduled occupation initially, as it’s very unusual for a pre-war, time expired regular, to not rejoin until 1917! Edited 20 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 20 September , 2020 Share Posted 20 September , 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, tanks3 said: P/W Camp 113 (not sure where that is) Good stuff Tanks3. I've drawn a blank on Camp 113. There are plenty of references available for UK sites but they all seem to be listed by place name. Edited 20 September , 2020 by TullochArd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 September , 2020 Share Posted 20 September , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, TullochArd said: Good stuff Tanks3. I've drawn a blank on Camp 113. There are plenty of references available for UK sites but they all seem to be listed by place name. Numbered camps were in France I think. They were responsible for using POWs as organised labour to rebuild devastated French infrastructure. Edited 20 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 Earlier post from LG ............... "The undermentioned temp. Lts. relinquish the actg. rank of Capt. on ceasing to comd. P. of W. Cos.: —" ....."15 Nov. 1919." ....... "W. B. Finney." Could "Cos." be an abbreviation for somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, TullochArd said: Earlier post from LG ............... "The undermentioned temp. Lts. relinquish the actg. rank of Capt. on ceasing to comd. P. of W. Cos.: —" ....."15 Nov. 1919." ....... "W. B. Finney." Could "Cos." be an abbreviation for somewhere? Cos was an alternative abbreviation for ‘Companies‘, Ian, although more correctly rendered as Co.s Edited 21 September , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 21 September , 2020 Share Posted 21 September , 2020 49 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Cos was an alternative abbreviation for ‘Companies‘, Ian, Doh! TVM Frogsmile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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