Pte Landa Smith No. 202853 1/4th Bn DWR

[DaveC]

Hi Everybody Seeking information on Pte Landa Smith, No. 202853 1/4th Bn The Duke of Wellington's (West Riding) Regiment, KIA 3-9-1916, commemorated on Thiepval Memorial, enlisted Bradford.   Any information however small most welcome.     Kindest Regards DaveC (Stay Safe) 

Edited 22 July , 2020 by DaveC

[DaveC]

Pte Landa Smith No. 202853, 1/4h Bn Duke of Wellington's Regiment, Kia 3-9-1916 Commemorated on Thiepval Memorial, and on local War Memorial at Thornton, Bradford, Yorkshire, Born North North Bierley ,Yorkshire, 1894, Enlisted February 1916, Resident, 24, King Edward Terrace, Thornton,   Occupation  Boot Repairer,  Son of Booth and Mary Smith, of Thornton, Bradford.   Can anybody add any information on Landa Smith it would be much Appreciated.   Kindest Regards DaveC (Stay Safe) 

Edited 31 July , 2020 by DaveC

[PRC]

Sunday 3rd September 1916.Day 65

The four day long Battle of Guillemont began. In fact this day was probably the busiest since 1st July with the first attacks in the north of the Somme Sector since that day.

 

Thiepval

49th Div was in action here, attacking at 5.15am from the line of the Thiepval-Hamel road, roughly the same advance made by 36th (Ulster)Div on July 1st. The advance followed a barrage on Schwaben Redoubt and a gas and ammonal barrage on Thiepval village.


147 Bde attacked on the right with 1/4th and 1/5th Bns, Duke of Wellington’s Regt taking the German front and support line trenches. The 1/5th Bn failed to take a salient in the German line called The Pope’s Nose, which was located where the Ulster Tower stands today.

146 Bde attacked on the left flank but failed to make any progress due to enfilading fire from The Pope’s Nose. 1/8th Bn, West Yorkshire Regt managed to enter the German support trench but, finding themselves unsupported, withdrew at 7.30am.

147 Bde, under fire from Schwaben Redoubt, was attacked by the Germans from Strasburg Trench (running northwest from Schwaben Redoubt) and they withdrew by 10am.

https://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com/showthread.php?9058-The-Somme-Day-by-Day/page3

 

War Diary currently free to download from the National Archive if you register for an account. I believe the bit you want is this one. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14055621

 

Suspect he was initially recorded as missing in action - he was still on the establishment of the Battalion at the start of 1917 when the new service numbers were issued. Any casualty report is likely to be under his original service number. As the 1/4th had been in France since April 1915 and you say he enlisted in February 1916, (or was that a mobilised Derby Scheme man?), then the original service number might give a clue as to which unit he trained with.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

Edited 31 July , 2020 by PRC
Typo

[DaveC]

Hi Peter

    Many Thanks for this, Much Appreciated.    Kindest Regards DaveC (Stay Safe) 

[Acknown]

There is a pension card (Ancestry via WFA). There is a second number: 5906. Presumed dead: 05 Sep 16. Widow: Mrs Annie Smith, 9 School Green, Thornton, Bradford. Grant: £5 on 18 Oct 17. Pension: £13/9 per week.

Acknown

BWM and VM only (MIC and Medal Roll on Ancestry). No theatre entry date.

Gratuity £3 (Soldiers Effects on Ancestry).

Edited 31 July , 2020 by Acknown

[PRC]

CWGC has 156 men of the 4th Battalion recorded as died on the 3rd - I assume the "presumed dead 05 Sep 1916" on his pension card is probably the date of the first roll call after the Battalion came out of the line. Many are like Landa, remembered on the Thiepval Memorial and recorded on the CWGC with their new service numbers that they would have had from the start of 1917.

 

A few however were buried at the time, or more likely in the spring of 1917 when a major battlefield clearance took place in the Somme area.

 

But some were recovered post-war. These are covered by Concentration reports which give map references for where the bodies were recovered from and will often show unknown members of the same regiment recovered nearby, sometimes with tentative identifications that were subsequently for some unknown reason disproved. Unfortunately the new look CWGC continues to suffer hiccups and I can't currently get the reports to open. The ones you might be interested in are:-

Private 202619 A. Bloomer: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544033/A BLOOMER/

Lance-Serjeant 1258 H. Cliff https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544067/H CLIFF/

Private 1125 James Stanley Crossley https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/608466/JAMES STANLEY CROSSLEY/

Private 202634 Hubert Frank https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544141/HUBERT FRANK/

Private 202801 George I Hammond https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544178/GEORGE I HAMMOND/

Private 3572 R. Hanson https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544181/R HANSON/

Private 200524 A. Hirst https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544202/A HIRST/

Private 202152 Alphonso Holroyde https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/593582/ALPHONSO HOLROYDE/

Second Lieutenant Vernon Adams Horsfall https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/608974/VERNON ADAMS HORSFALL/

Corporal 3198 G.E. Hutchinson https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544228/G E HUTCHINSON/

Second Lieutenant Frederick Arthur Innes https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/532142/FREDERICK ARTHUR INNES/

Private 202833 William H. Kilburn https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544248/WILLIAM H KILBURN/

Private 202662 J. Mytton. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544336/J MYTTON/

Private 202682 E. Riley https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544372/E RILEY/

Private 200642 John Shelley https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544397/JOHN SHELLEY/

Private 201494 E. Slinger https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544400/E SLINGER/

Private 201772 C. H. Whiteley https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/527096/C H WHITELEY/

Private 200503 H. Woodhead https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/544483/H WOODHEAD/

 

Note - a single concentration report can cover several individuals, so don't be surprised if you keep seeing the same details.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

 

 

 

[sadbrewer]

Have to say Peter....as ever....brilliant work.

[DaveC]

Hi Peter

   Many Many thanks for all your help, I've only just started looking into Concentration reports an i' finding them very interesting, Would you know if they indicate  if the soldier were originally buried by the Germans?

I do have mini biographies on

Bloomer Alfred Pte No 202619 1st 4th Bn

Cliff Harry LSgt No. 1258 1st 4th Bn

Crossley James Stanley Pte No. 1125 1st 4th

Hammond George Iveson Pte No. 202801 1st 4th Bn

Hanson Richard Pte No. 3572 1st 4th Bn

Hirst Albert Pte No. 200524 1st 4th Bn

Horsfall Vernon Adams 2Lt

Hutchinson George Earl Cpl No. 3198 1st 4th Bn

Innes Frederick Arthur 2Lt MC 1st 4th Bn

Mytton Josiah Pte No. 202662 1st 4h Bn

Shelley John Pte 2400 - 200642 1st 4th Bn

Slinger Ernest Pte 201494 1st 4th Bn

Whitely Charles Henry Pte No. 4133 - 201772 1st 4th Bn

Woodhead Harry Pte No. 200503 1st 4th Bn

 

The ones I don't have information on are:-

Frank Hubert Pte No. 202634 1st 4th Bn Enlisted Barnsley Born, Barnsley, Resident, Barnsley

Holroyde Alphonso Pte No. 202152 1st 4th Bn    I think I must have over looked Alphonso Holroyde because  he comes from my neck of the woods

Kilburn William Henry Pte No. 202833 1st 4th Bn, Born Aysgarth, Yorkshire, Resident, Carperdy, Yorkshire

Any Help most Welcome

 

I can't thank you enough for all your help Kindest and Warmest Regards DaveC (Stay Safe)

 

 

 

Edited 2 August , 2020 by DaveC

[DaveC]

Acknown

   Many Many thanks for the information on Landa Smith, I didn't know he was married, I'm going to try and get a copy of the Pension Card. So once again, Many Thanks for your most valuable help.  Kindest and Warmest Regards DaveC (Stay Safe)

Edited 2 August , 2020 by DaveC