Liaison Officer - Viscount who?

[michaeldr]

A couple of quotes from Patrick Shaw-Stewart by Ronald Knox, published by William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd., 1920

 

(probably) addressed to R. A. Knox - 6^th October 1915

I have got a new coadjutor, who will be where I was. To-day I am to introduce him to the French

authorities, an agreeable task I am sure, as they like their occasional Lord even better than we do.

"Oui, il est fils de Earl, puis par consequent il est Viscount, ce que nous appelons titre de courtoisie,

mais il n'est pas pair," I hear myself in anticipation saying a hundred times.'

 

 

addressed to his Nurse - 14^th October 1915

I think I am going to end my days on this old Peninsula, not necessarily prematurely, but just because I don't see how I am to get off. However, I have very little to complain of. The senior liaison officer has gone away for the time being, and I am the Great Panjandrum myself, and have seven signallers and a Viscount under me! I live in a beautiful little wooden house, which has a real tin roof with earth on the top.

 

Can anyone identify the junior liaison officer here who served under Shaw-Stewart with the French at Helles?

 

Thanks in advance

Michael

Edited 21 July , 2020 by michaeldr

[travers61]

A candidate may be Francis Curzon, 5th Earl Howe (1884 - 1964).  In 1915 he was his fathers heir & used the courtesy title Viscount Curzon.  Wikipedia says this about his navy service in WW1 and earlier:

 

Francis, Viscount Curzon, joined the Royal Naval Reserve after leaving school, following in a long family tradition. 28 October 1907, Lieutenant Viscount Curzon, RNVR, formerly of the London Division, was appointed Commanding Officer of the Sussex Division of the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve in Hove, Sussex, with the rank of Commander RNVR. When World War I started the RNVR was formed into the Royal Naval Division and they were to fight on land like infantrymen not sailors. Commander the Rt. Hon. Viscount Curzon served as Battalion Commander, Howe Battalion of the 2nd Brigade RND. Howe Battalion saw action at Gallipoli, April 1915 – January 1916; Mudros and Stavros, Salonica, January - May 1916; France and Belgium, May 1916 - February 1918, when the battalion was disbanded. During part of this period Curzon also served as aide-de-camp to George V. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Curzon,_5th_Earl_Howe

[horatio2]

14 minutes ago, travers61 said:

A candidate may be Francis Curzon, 5th Earl Howe (1884 - 1964)

A most unlikely candidate who was not at Gallipoli, having been relieved in command of Howe Bn. in November 1914. Apart from which a Commander RNVR could not be subordinate to a Lieutenant RNVR.

[michaeldr]

Thank you for your interest here

I'm inclined to think that the junior liaison officer I am looking for here was an army man, rather than RND.

It was probably just a coincidence that Shaw-Stewart was RND. 

I believe that he got the job because of his linguistic skills, rather that his connection to the RND, even though that unit did spend a lot of time on the French left flank.

[horatio2]

18 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

I am looking for here was an army man, rather than RND.

I agree. I have checked all the 'naval Viscounts' and none are candidates.

[michaeldr]

Many thanks H2

[alantwo]

Hi Michael

 

This may not be the chap you are looking for but Lieutenant, Viscount Quenington was at Gallipoli with the Gloucester Yeomanry.

 

Kind regards

Alan

 

Edit: Michael, I think forget this, he was unlikely to be attached to Shaw-Stewart, as Lieutenant and Adjutant Quenington signed the Gloucester Yeomanry War Diary entries for September and October at Suvla. 

 

Edited 27 July , 2020 by alantwo

[michaeldr]

Thanks for checking this one Alan,

which although it did not work out, nevertheless does illustrates a possible line of enquiry.

I was wondering why Shaw-Stewart did not consider it worthwhile to mention his name

and think that it is quite possible this fellow is more of a 'county' type 

(unlike PSS's usual circle [school/university/city])

 

regards

Michael

 

[alantwo]

Michael

 

I've found one or two Lords at Gallipoli, mostly within the Yeomanry, but unfortunately they do not have their 'peerage' rank, Lieutenant Quenington was the only Viscount I had. Having read further in the War Diary he became OC in November such were their losses.

 

If you would like the other Lords, if only to cross them off, let me know, it's not a complete list by any means merely those I've come across and presumably we can cross off one candidate already, Lord Kitchener.

 

Kind regards

Alan

 

 

 

 

[HarryBrook]

I don't know whether this suggestion will stand up to closer scrutiny but I would suggest another candidate, Viscount Vere Brabazon Duncannon, later Earl of Bessborough.

Appointed GSO3 effective 6 October 1915 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29367/supplement/11301 He died on 10 March 1956 and his obituary in The Times of 12 March 1956 states that he served as a GSO3 in Gallipoli. His medal index card in the name of the Earl of Bessborough does not give a first theatre of war or landing date unfortunately.

 

He was an officer in the Suffolk Yeomanry, which, according to Brig E. A. James, did not land in Gallipoli until 10 October 1915 which does cast a bit of doubt. Having said that the regiment sailed from Liverpool on 25 September on the 'Olympic' which would possibly not have sailed directly to Gallipoli to disembark.  

 

His wikipedia entry is particularly interesting in that he married a french noblewoman Roberte de Neuflize in 1912.

[michaeldr]

HB

Thanks for that

It looks promising, as they had got as far as Mudros by 1st October 

and his Staff appointment on 6th October would also appear to fit

As you suggest "closer scrutiny" is required; perhaps there's a mention in the Suffolk Yeomanry WD?

 

Thanks again

Michael

[HarryBrook]

The war diary does not help particularly. It reads:- "Oct 3 - 7, Regt. remained on board OLYMPIC which lay at anchor in MUDROS BAY. Capt. V. B. Duncannon left to take up staff appointment. Capt. T Grissell appointed adjt."

 

Capt. T. Grisell was T. De La Garde Grissell.

So the W.D. does not say what his staff appointment entailed and does not say on what particular day between 3 and 7 October he departed the Regt. 

 

Edit:- 2nd Lt. V. B. Duncannon had been appointed adjutant of the Suffolk Yeomanry on 7 April 1915 and promoted to temp. Capt. 20 May 1915. Capt. T. Grisell was appointed adjutant, vice Duncannon, on 6 October 1915. The Dover Express reported on 10 December 1915 that Viscount Duncannon, who was M.P. for Dover, was "on sick leave having suffered dysentery at the Dardenelles". A further French connection - In WW2 he helped to establish a department within the Foreign Office that looked after the welfare of French refugees in Britain.  

Edited 28 July , 2020 by HarryBrook

[michaeldr]

HB

 

I'm 99% persuaded that you've found our man

- In the theatre at the right time

- A viscount (and the heir of an earl)

- Already married to a French lady & therefore no doubt having a good command of that language

- GSO3 appointment on the date required (and his relief takes up his previous post on that same date)

 

I think that there are too many coincidences here for it to be anything else,

but it would still be nice to have that missing piece of the jigsaw

 

Thanks again for all your help here

Michael