301827 Pte George Chappells Manchester Regiment

[Paul L]

I have a post card here addressed to a Private in the Manchester regiment, attached to the 15th entrenchment battalion dated March 1918, I hope to find out more about the soldier,  what happened to him, did he survive?

[PRC]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

 

11 hours ago, Paul L said:

I have a post card here addressed to a Private in the Manchester regiment, attached to the 15th entrenchment battalion dated March 1918, I hope to find out more about the soldier,  what happened to him, did he survive?

 

A check of the medal index card records in the National Archive brings up one possible candidate - a Private George Chappells of the Manchester Regiment whose incomplete service number has been catalogued as 30182incomplete.  He was also a Private in the North Staffordshire Regiment, service number 4080incomplete, but it doesn't state which order he served with which regiment and there is no immediate clue from the administrative numbers on the card. These Medal Index cards, (MiCs) were simply that - cards to control the documentation for the issue of medals. Men who served in the UK only didn't qualify for service medals, so as the man on your postcard served with the British Expeditionary Force, he should have a MiC

 

You may not be aware but well over 60% of the service records from the Great War were destroyed during the blitz and much of what is left is fire damaged, so MiCs are an important way to try and identify individuals who served.

 

If you check the preview version of the card on the National Archive site you can see the right hand edge has been cut off in the scanning process, hence why the cataloguer has identified a subsequent problem.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6228005

 

FindMyPast only has transcriptions of the MiC's, no image, and they too have the incomplete service numbers.

 

Fortunately in this case Ancestry has it's own scans and this shows Private George Chappells as 301827 Manchester Regiment and 43808 North Staffordshire Regiment. As usual with other ranks there is nothing recorded on the reverse side of the MiC.

 

Sourced Ancestry - terms exist restricting reuse so please check their site.

 

So what more can the MiC tells us.

 

The administrative reference F/104 B13 Page 1565 refers to the relevant page of the Regimental service medal roll. His medals would have been issued with the last Regiment he was serving with.  A quick look at men with nearby Manchester Regiment service numbers shows these reference numbers.

301825 Philip J Heard - H/1/104 B42 Page 8418

301829 Douglas Walker - H/1/104 B34 Page 6910

 

The same exercise for North Staffordshire Regiment men shows:-

43807 George Thomasson - F/104 B13 Page 1565 - note he was ex-Manchester Regiment 302039

43809 Ernest Spicer - F/104 B13 Page 1566 - note he was ex-Manchester Regiment 46459.

 

A much quicker way to do that exercise is to check out the Regiment Service Medal roll itself, but thats only on Ancestry and to see it requires a paid subscription - I only have the basic free subscription which on the military side gives me sight of the MiCs and not a great deal more of Great War interest

 

If the clerk completing the service medal roll followed the standard instructions then the service medal roll should show all unit served with overseas - but not all do.Hopefully it will confirm he finished the war serving with the North Staffordshire Regiment and give the battalion.

 

The MiC also tells us he only qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. This combination indicates he did not enter a Theatre of War until some point on or after the 1st January 1916 - men who served in a theatre of war earlier were entitled to additional medals.

 

His service number with the Manchesters is also interesting. A six number service number like 301827 indicates he was serving with a Territorial Battalion of the Manchester Regiment at the start of 1917 - there was an army wide renumbering exercise at that time for all men serving with TF units. Our parent site, The Long, Long Trails advises that the number block 300000 to 350000 was allocated to the 8th Battalions of the Manchester Regiment.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/

 

The 8th battalions at that point were the 1/8th, 2/8th and 3/8th - all Territorial Force battalions.

 

1/8th (Ardwick) Battalion
August 1914 : in Ardwick. Part of Manchester Brigade, East Lancashire Division.

25 September 1914 : landed at Alexandria in Egypt.
6 May 1915 : landed on Gallipoli.
26 May 1915 : formation became 127th Brigade, 42nd (East Lancashire) Division.
28 December 1915 : evacuated from Gallipoli, landed on Mudros and proceeded to Egypt.
2March 1917 : landed Marseilles and proceeded to the Western Front.

19 february 1918 : transferred to 126th Brigade in same Division.

 

2/8th (Ardwick) Battalion
Formed at Ardwick in August 1914 as a second line unit.

In November 1914 was placed under command of 199th Brigade in 66th (2nd East Lancashire) Division. Moved to Crowborough in May 1915, went on to Colchester in March 1916.
February 1917 : landed in France.

13 February 1918 : disbanded in France.

 

3/8th, 3/9th and 3/10th Battalions
Formed at home bases in March 1915. Moved in early 1916 to Witley.
8 April 1916 : became 8th, 9th and 10th Reserve Bns.
1 September 1916 : 9th and 10th Bns absorbed into 8th Bn. Moved to Southport in October 1916, going on to Ripon in January 1917, Hunmanby in July 1917 and then Filey in April 1918.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/manchester-regiment/

 

On 31/03/2011 at 21:49, Tom Tulloch-Marshall said:

No 15 Entrenching Battalion, circa Feb – April 1918, is proving to be very elusive. Seems to have been formed using men from the following units >

37th Division

11th R.Warwicks

10th LN.Lancs

8th E.Lancs

10th York & Lancs

66th Division

2/8th Manchesters

2/10th Manchesters

3/5th Lancs Fusiliers

 

Giving the above sources of men for the 15th Entrenching Battalion and the Long, Long Trail details on the various 8th Battalions, my informed guess would be that he served with the 2/8th and possibly went out with them in 1917 - hence the medals awarded.

 

There is nothing obvious on the International Commitee of the Red Cross website to indicate he was subsequently taken prisoner.

Nothing on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website to indicate he died whilst serving, or post discharge as a result of wounds incurred or health issues relating to service, (up to July 1921 - the legal cut-off).

 

Assuming he was born in England & Wales, (and that's a big assumption) and that the name he was registered with was some variation on George + Chappells, (another big assumption - see below),the only likely match is a George Frederick Chappells, whose birth was registered with the Civil Authorities in the Leek District of Staffordshire in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1891. There is no obvious match for this person on the Census record of England & Wales but the only obvious death is at Sidcup, Kent in 1956.

 

Going back to the Census, on the 1911 Census of England & Wales there is an 18 year old George Chappells, born Newton Heath, Lancashire, a Machine Operators Labourer, who was recorded living at 10 Deal Street, Newton Heath, This was the household of his step-father, George Chappells, (53, Cotton Dyer, born Newton Heath) and mother Eliza Ann, (44, born Macclesfield?, Cheshire). The couple have been married 9 years and their marriage has produced 2 children, of which 1 was then still alive. This was the 8 year old Frank Chappells, born Newton Heath.

 

The marriage of a George "Chappels" to an Eliza Ann Hobson was recorded in the Prestwich District of Lancashire in the July to September quarter of 1901. It need to be confirmed thats the right marriage, but the Prestwich Civil Registration District does include the Civil Parish of Newton Heath. Similarly there is a birth of a George Hobson recorded in the Prestwich District in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1894. The 33 year old widow Eliza A, born Macclesfield is on the 1901 Census of England & Wales at 83 St Cuthbert Lane, North Manchester, but there is no children recorded with her.

 

There is no likely marriage for George Chappells, no middle names, recorded in England & Wales, and no likely deaths. There is no obvious match on the 1939 National Register.

 

So he could have emigrated, or at least moved outside England & Wales, he could have changed his name \ spelling of his name \ reverted to his maiden name, or he could just have been very good at avoiding officialdom

 

The 1921 Census of England & Wales, scheduled for release in 2022 may help extend knowledge of what happened to him post war. If you could track an entry down for him on the Absent Voters Lists for 1918 & 1919 that would also help confirm which units he was serving with - see https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/finding-soldiers-through-the-1918-absent-voters-lists/

 

Hope some of that helps,

Peter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Paul L]

This is really helpful , big thanks Peter, I posted images of the post card to the Manchester regiment pages earlier also, not heard back from anyone yet there as yet,f but it has raised interest. The info you have found so quick is fascinating. 

[Paul L]

Thanks also to the other forum members, its is fascinating and also amazing to see the details emerge.

[PRC]

1 hour ago, Paul L said:

This is really helpful , big thanks Peter, I posted images of the post card to the Manchester regiment pages earlier also, not heard back from anyone yet there as yet,f but it has raised interest. The info you have found so quick is fascinating. 

 

No worries :-)

 

You might want to use the 'post options' to ask the admins to move this into its thread in its own right as it will attract a bit more interest - the one you've tagged onto is over 9 years old, (although the other posters on this thread are all still active on the forum).

 

BTW - who was the postcard from, the name is cut off by your crop.

 

If you don't have Ancestry, don't wish to subscribe or try a free trial, but live in the UK, then could be worthwhile checking out yout local library service website. Most public libraries offer access to either Ancestry or FindMyPast when you in a library, and some do both. With the Covid19 lockdown some have been able to negotiate remote access - my FindMyPast access on my home devices is courtesy of Norfolk Library Service for example. Even though libraries are reopening for borrowing books in many parts of the country, my local library service have no plans as yet to reopen onsite computer access or the County archive, so as far as I can see my home access to FMP will continue.

 

Of men with nearby service numbers to 43808 George Chappells, North Stafforshire Regiment, I can see there are surviving discharge records for 43802 John E. Battersby and 43810 William Fielden. There is also an appearance in an admission and discharge register for a medical facility for 43801 Thomas H. Wedgbury.

Admitted 31 Ambulance Train 17th October 1918 at Beaulencourt and detrained at Etaples. He was suffering from “Gas Shell Mus” (probably Mustard). He was serving with the 1st North Staffords.

 

43802 John E Battersby ex 6th East Lancashire Regiment 16770.

Surviving Discharge records show he was 1st Battalion North Staffordshire Regiment. Notes on his Casualty Form Active Service shows him posted to 15th Entrenching Battalion and joined 21st February 1918, followed by “Transferred to & Joined 1st Bn N.Staffs Rgt 9 AVR 1918 under A.O. 204/10. Alltd. No. 43802”

 

43810 William E. Fielden ex 36371 East Lancashire Regiment.

Surviving Discharge records show him as 1st Battalion North Staffordshire Regiment. On the 20th May 1918 he suffered Mustard Gas Poisoning. He was medically evacuated via Doullens and Rouen to the UK. He was posted to 15th Entrenching Battalion and joined 21st February 1918. He was transferred to the 1st Battalion North Staffordshire Regiment on the 9th April 1918 under A.O. 204/1916 and allotted no. 43810. However he was then transferred to the 4th Battalion, North Staffordshire Regiment on the 3rd May 1918 and it was with that unit he was gassed.

 

So George Chappells most likely was posted to the 1st Battalion but might have subsequently been posted to the 4th. Once again it may be a question of looking to see what his entry on the North Staffordshire Regiment Service Medal Roll for the Victory Medal and the British War Medal has to say.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Paul L]

hopefully this is a bit clearer, I don't know how to ask the admin to move this to a new thread, its sounds like a good idea,  thanks for all your help,

 

 

 

[Paul L]

I just had an update, 

"The info that came in was he was in 8th Bn Manchester Regt first, therefore he's probably a Manchester lad Manchester Regt service numbers beginning with 301 are 8th Bn".

The info came in not long ago this evening from the Manchester Regiment 1914-1918 facebook group from Linda Corbett

This is the book from North Staffordshire Regiment of those awarded the Victory medal


I'm very new to reading military records but if I am understanding correct he was in the 

2/8th (Ardwick) Battalion
Formed at Ardwick in August 1914 as a second line unit.

In November 1914 was placed under command of 199th Brigade in 66th (2nd East Lancashire) Division. Moved to Crowborough in May 1915, went on to Colchester in March 1916.February 1917 : landed in France. 13 February 1918 : disbanded in France. 

I noticed the post card reads that there has been three previous letters to him and he seems not to have received them, it must have been heart breaking not to hear from home and be in the trenches,.   

This is the information I gained from Wikipedia about entrenching battalions "The entrenching battalions were disbanded in April 1918, with their troops apportioned to infantry battalions to make good the losses suffered following Operation Michael, which began the German Spring Offensive of 1918. Many of their war diaries^[2] from 1918 have survived and can be consulted at the National Archives at Kew though the 1918 war diaries for the 1st, 6th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 15th and 17th Entrenching Battalions have not survived."

It would be great now if it is possible to somehow identify his family and where he was born, 

[PRC]

7 hours ago, Paul L said:

I noticed the post card reads that there has been three previous letters to him and he seems not to have received them, it must have been heart breaking not to hear from home and be in the trenches,. 

 

No doubt the letters would have been written over the previous few weeks - the postcard is postmarked 1st March 1918 and is almost certaining in response to a letter from George.

 

During that time his Battalion has been disbanded, (13th February1918) and no doubt he was kicking his heels at a depot for a few days before joining the 15th Entrenching Battalion on the 21st February 1918. The letter from George may have been the first the postcard sender knew of his change of unit. It's unlikely there was any residual part of the 2/8th Manchesters, so probably the three letters were bouncing round trying to find him, so may have eventually caught up or been returned to sender by the Army Postal Service.

 

9 hours ago, Paul L said:

This is the book from North Staffordshire Regiment of those awarded the Victory medal

 

Good to know I "guessed" right

 

The 1st Battalion North Staffordshire were then part of 72nd Brigade in the 24th Division.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-prince-of-waless-north-staffordshire-regiment/

 

If you are interested you can currently download War Diaries from the National Archive for free - you just have to register for an account. Relevant period should be this one.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353315

Almost certainly won't mention him by name but will give a feel for what he went through.

 

The Long, Long Trail page for the 24th Division adds for the period after the 9th April 1918:-

The Battle of Cambrai 1918, a phase of the Battles of the Hindenburg Line
The pursuit to the Selle^
The Battle of the Sambre^, including the passage of the Grand Honelle
The battles marked ^ are phases of the Final Advance in Picardy

When the Armistice came into effect at 11am on 11 November 1918 the units of the Division were holding positions 1.5 miles east of the Maubeuge-Mons road. Between 17-19 November they moved back to the area between Denain and Douai and 25-27 November went to the area St Amand-Orchies. On 18 December the Division moved once more, to Tournai. Demobilisation began and by 26 March 1919 only cadres were left.

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/24th-division/

 

Those are standard battle names so a quick google search or forum search will bring up a lot more information.

 

The other two infantry battalions of the 72nd Brigade were the 9th Battalion East Surrey Regiment and the 8th Battalion Royal West Kent Regiment.

Website with the East Surreys war diaries can be viewed here:- http://qrrarchive.websds.net/menu2.aspx?reg=ESR

The official Great War era  Regiment History of the Royal West Kent Regiment can be read here:- http://janetandrichardsgenealogy.co.uk/QORWK C T Atkinson.html

 

9 hours ago, Paul L said:

The info that came in was he was in 8th Bn Manchester Regt first, therefore he's probably a Manchester lad

 

Being in the Manchester Regiment doesn't automatically mean he came from Manchester. However in this case there is the Newton Heath born candidate. My knowledge of Manchester is a bit sparse but even I know that Manchester United started out as a Railway workers team for the depot at Newton Heath!

 

In the absense of service records, and with no obvious marriage during the period Private Chappells would have been serving, establishing a link between the man in the civil records and the soldier will probably come down to either the Absent Voters List or a newspaper report. With their specialist local knowedge I suspect the Manchester Regiment group might be better placed to advise you whether an AVL exists, (other than the hard copy in the British Library) or which newspapers to search or indeed if there are any specialist contemporary sources that might mention him. I believe there was a Manchester employers Roll of Honour, but it was a mix of individual employers, some of whom recorded just those who died, while others recorded all those who served. I'm not however seeing a match for George in what I could track down online.

 

Just in case I explored the avenue of his stepfathers death as that mans will might mention Private Chappells. However while there is a death of a 62 year old George Chappells recorded in the Prestwich District of Lancashire in Q2 1920, there is no obvious civil probate for him and FMP newspapers isn't bringing up any obvious newspaper reports of the death or funeral.

 

The name of the postcard sender is difficult to make our - "Hiddy" or "Fliddy". Certainly sounds like it was was written by someone who cared for him and the couple are on first name terms, (i wonder if M.D.G is shorthand for 'My Dear George"), and possibly living at Accrington judging from the post stamp - I suspect a sweetheart but there is just too little to go on.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[spof]

Hi Paul

 

I've moved your posts into a new thread.

 

Regards

Glen

GWF Admin Team