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stevebecker

Mates,

 

I notice this man given by Wolf in his book?

 

Köhler Franz    LtzS Eng Marine    Ingenieur (Engineer) U 18 U Boat     1915-16    awarded EK II 6-15 shown in Klaus Wolf's Book
 

I did wonder why he should be mentioned in the Ottoman Area when U 18 was sunk early in 1914 and UB and UC 18 were all in the Flanders Flotillas?

 

Any ideas?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

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Michael Lowrey

Steve,

 

German submarines in the Mediterranean Sea often false flagged as Austrian. The German UC 14 was given the false Austrian identity of  U 18; this is presumably the submarine Wolf is referring to. UC 14 did deploy to Constantinople in July 1915, didn’t do anything of note when there, and then returned to Austrian waters in September.

 

That said, the officer being referred to is not so obvious. The chief engineer on the small UCI minelayers at that stage of the war tended to be Aspirants or maybe Oberaspirants — engineering commissioned officer candidates still with warrant officer ranks. Such personnel should be included in the 1914 and 1916 Rangliste as well as the Ehrenrangliste der Kaiserlich Deutschen Marine, 1914-1918. There is, however, no Frank Köhler listed in those works.

 

Best wishes,

Michael

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stevebecker
Posted (edited)

Michael,

 

Thanks mate, than makes sence.

 

I notice three men by that name?

Es wurden 3 Einträge gefunden.

  Last name First name Ort Liste Reg. o.ä. Status GOV Id Dienstgrad Bemerk. Geburtsdatum Ausgabe Datum Page
show Köhler Franz Schöneberg, Berlin Marine 44     BERLINJO62PM       1915-08-23   8318
show Köhler Franz Hamersleben, Oschersleben Marine 127     object_1053970       1917-10-08   21061
show Köhler Franz Dilsburg, Saarbrücken Marine 64

 

But unknown if any are him?

 

I notice that I put the same for this man.

 

Grüter Paul    LtzS Eng Marine    Ingenieur (engineer) UB 7 Constantinople Flotilla 1916 U boat    1915-16    KIA 27-9-16) sunk by Bulgaria Mine in the Black Sea 15 miles SE of Varna all 15 hands lost shown in Klaus Wolf's Book

 

So he was possibly not LtzS ?

 

possibly?

 

Grüter Paul (Bochum)

 

Wolf's book gave me many Ingenieurs in the Imperial Navy, mostly on surface ships, but the odd U Boat man does show up.

 

Cheers


S.B

Edited by stevebecker

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Michael Lowrey

Steve,

 

None of those are the Franz Köhler you are looking for.

 

Yes, that it is the correct Paul Grüter, who was a Marine-Ingenieuraspirant when killed. He was born on September 13, 1893 and had been promoted to the warrant officer rank of Marine-Ingenieuraspirant on September 25, 1915.

 

Had he lived, he would likely have been promoted to Marine-Ingenieuroberaspirant on July 1, 1917 and then to Marine-Ingenieur — the naval engineering equivalent of a Leutnant zur See — on July 18, 1918. The German navy didn't start using line officer titles with an (I) for Ingenieur tacked on for their engineering officers until after the war.

 

Best wishes,

Michael

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stevebecker

Mate,

 

Again thanks 

 

I notice this man has been correctly shown by Wolf

 

Krüger     WO Eng Marine    Ingenieur (Engineer Warrent officer) Oberaspirant officer candidate UC 25 Senior Engineer Officer candidate    1915-16    shown in Klaus Wolf's Book
 

While who he is, other then Krüger, is not known or shown?

 

Also he is shown in Turkey between 1915-16, but UC 25 was in the Baltic flotilla during that time and didn't arrive in the Med till 1917?

 

Any ideas

 

Cheers

 

S.B

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Michael Lowrey

Steve,

 

Looks like another typo by Wolf. I found a Hans Krüger, who was LI (Leitender Ingenieur = chief engineer) on UC 15 between August 1915 and March 1916 — and UC 15 was in the Black Sea.

 

Krüger's dates of rank:

Marine-Ingenieuraspirant: September 25, 1913

Marine-Ingenieuroberaspirant: late 1915 or maybe even January 1, 1916

Marine-Ingenieur: July 13, 1916

Marine-OberIngenieur: April 28, 1918 (=Oberleutnant zur See)

 

Krüger gets sent back to Germany in March 1916, and eventually spend time as U 70's chief engineer.

 

Best wishes,

Michael

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stevebecker
Posted (edited)

Michael,

 

Mate, wow, your the man.

 

Cheers

 

S.B 

 

P.S

 

Mate sorry but I ran into another one of interest?

 

Kümpel Otto    ObLtzS Marine    UC 20 Pola/Mittelmeer I Flotilla 12-17 to 1-18 & UC 37 Constantinople Flotilla 1918 U Boat 1917-18
 

Wolf shows possibly the same man as;

 

Kommander Adjt and Watch officer) SMS Goeben 1914-17 EK I 8-16

 

I do have this man on my lists

 

Kümpel     Ensign Marine    SMS Goeben

 

Was Otto Kümpel  on the SMS Goeben before joining the U Boat force?

 

Are they all the same man?

 

S.B

Edited by stevebecker

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stevebecker
Posted (edited)

Mate,

 

Just when you think you got they all another shows up

 

Wolf shows him as;

 

Agrell Friedrich    LtzS Marine    Ingenieur (Engineer officer) U 14  U Boat    1915-16
 

Can I take it that he was like the other Ingenieur shown above?

 

And U 14, I take it its UB 14?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

Edited by stevebecker

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Michael Lowrey

Steve,

 

Yes, Otto Kümpel was on SMS Goeben before undergoing submarine training. There's more on him here.

 

Per the Ehrenrangliste, Agrell was the LI on UB 14 in the Black Sea in 1915-16. He was later the LI on UC 22 and U 34 and survived the war. (He's not the guy we're looking for from UC 14.) Dates of rank:

 

Marine-Ingenieuraspirant: October 1, 1913

Marine-Ingenieuroberaspirant: late 1915 or maybe even January 1, 1916

Marine-Ingenieur: July 13, 1916

Marine-OberIngenieur: May 23, 1918

 

His German awards as of early 1918 were the  Iron Cross First Class and the Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg-Schwerin Militärverdienstkreuz 2nd class on the Red Ribbon. I'd expect he was awarded both Austrian and Ottoman decorations as well.

 

Best wishes,

Michael

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stevebecker

Michael,

 

Thank you

 

Mate I notice the U Boat net has a number of Commanders awarded Ottoman Medals Pre War, do you have any insight into these, like when they possibly given?

 

Don't wory about the KUK members, just the Germans for now?

 

Edeling Karl    Kapt-Lt Marine    Commander U 43 III Flotilla 3-17 to 11-17 U Boat      unknown    (born 1886 at Bad Oeynhausen KIA 24-11-17) U 43 went aground at high tide on the Goodwin Sands then a British patrol craft exchange of gunfire scuttling charges were set and the crew abandoned the boat.. 19 dead and 22 survivors 14 ships sunk with a total of 55, 253 GRT awarded Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Feldt Richard     Kapt-Lt Marine    commander U 156 U-Kreuzer Flotilla 6-18 to 9-18 U Boat      unknown     (born 1882 at Münster KIA 25-9-18) reported probably mined in Northern Passage as she failed to report when clear of.. 77 dead (all hands lost)  44 ships sunk with a total of 50, 471 tons + 1 warship sunk (Armored cruiser USS San Diego) with a total of 13, 680 tons awarded Ottoman Osminieh Order Pre War?

 

Fernland Robert Teufl von     LSLt Marine    Linenschiffleutnant KUK U 11 U Boat      unknown    (1885 at Wien died 1945) 3 ships sunk with a total of 7,435 GRT awarded Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Glasenapp Alfred von    Kapt-Lt Marine    Commander U 80 I Flotilla 6-16 to 7-17 to U 91 III Flotilla 9-17 to 11-18 U Boat     unknown    (born 1882 at Öls

Schlesien died 1958) 50 ships (including Armed merchant cruiser Laurentic) sunk with a total of 117, 601 GRT + 1 warship sunk (Destroyer HMS Pheasant) with a total of 1,025 tons awarded Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Holub Josef    LSLt Marine    Linenschiffleutnant KUK U 21 U Boat      unknown    (born 1885 at Przemysi Galicia died 1965) KUK 30 ships sunk with a total of 6,957 GRT + 1 warship sunk with a total of 765 tons awarded Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Hübner Eduard Ritter von    LSLt Marine    Linenschiffleutnant KUK U 3 U Boat      unknown    (born 1883 at Dobrn Bohemia died 1975) No ships sunk or damaged KUK awarded Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Lerch Egon    LSLt Marine    Linenschiffleutnant KUK U 5 U Boat   unknown    (born 1886 at Triest died 12-8-15) cause not stated KUK 1 ship sunk with a total of 1,065 GRT awarded Austrian Order of Leopold and Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Mohl Hans von    Kapt-Lt Marine    Commander U 93 IV Flotilla U Boat      unknown    (born 1882 at Berlin died 1979) 2 ships sunk with a total of 1,668 GRT awarded Order of the Zähringer Lion (Baden) and Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Nejebsy Franz    LSLt Marine    Linenschiffleutnant KUK U 1 U Boat     unknown    (born 1884 at Teplitz-Schönau (Teplice-Sanou) died 1953) 1 ship sunk with a total of 4,021 GRT awarded Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Rave Ortwin    Kapt-Lt Marine    Commander U 157 U-Kreuzer Flotilla U Boat      unknown    (born 1882 died ?) 8 ships sunk with a total of 5,572 GRT awarded Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Rose Hans    Kapt-Lt Marine    Commander U 53 II Flotilla U Boat      unknown    (born 1885 at Berlin-Charlottenburg died 1969) 81 ships sunk with a total of 220,892 GRT + 1 warship sunk (Destroyer USS Jacob Jones) with a total of 1,050 tons Pour le Mérite awarded Royal House Order of Hohenzollern and Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Schlosser Friedrich    LSLt Marine    Linenschiffleutnant KUK U 5 U Boat      unknown    (born 1885 at Teplitz (Teplice) died 1959) 1 ship sunk with a total of 7,929 GRT awarded Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Schmidt Georg    Kapt-Lt Marine    Commander U 28 IV Flotilla U Boat      unknown    (born 1882 at Jork Stade KIA 2-9-17) Sunk by explosion of Olive Branch’s cargo (munitions) following gunfire from the U-Boat off the North Cape coast 39 dead (all hands lost) 16 ships sunk with a total of 35,539 GRT awarded Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Skopinic Franz    LSLt Marine    Linenschiffleutnant KUK U 17 U Boat     unknown    (1884 at Lussinpiccolo (Mali Losini) died 1938) No ships sunk or damaged awarded Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Strnad Karl    LSLt Marine    Linenschiffleutnant KUK U 3 U Boat  ***** How killed ********    unknown    (1885 at Pohrlitz (Pohorelice) KIA 13-8-15) No ships sunk or damaged awarded Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War?

 

Also do you have how the last man was killed?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

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Michael Lowrey

Steve,

 

I'm pretty sure it's researchable, but I certainly haven't seen the specifics or exact dates for these awards. Best I can do is give you the year of the Rangliste edition that the Ottoman award is first listed:

 

Rave 1904

Schmidt 1905

Feldt 1907

von Mohl 1908

Edeling 1911

von Glasenapp, Rose both 1913

 

Best wishes,

Michael

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stevebecker

Michael,

 

Thanks again, another Wolf question?

 

Heiling Peter    LtzS Marine    UB 46 Constantinople Flotilla 1916 U boat    1915-16    (KIA 7-12-16) Struck a mine laid by the Russian destroyers Pylkii and Derzkii 30-1-16 NW off the Bosporus 20 dead (all hands lost) buried Tarabya shown in Klaus Wolf's Book
 

I already had this man

 

Neiling Peter    LtzR deR Marine    UB 46 Constantinople Flotilla 1916 U boat    1915-16    (born at Christiansfeld KIA 7-12-16) in the Black Sea near Akbunar Struck a mine laid by the Russian destroyers Pylkii and Derzkii 30-1-16 NW off the Bosporus 20 dead (all hands lost). commemorative plaque at Tarabya Istanbul related Julius & Christian
 

Is this another case of Wolf incorrectly spelling a name?

 

S.B

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Michael Lowrey

Steve,

 

Yes, another case of Wolf getting a name wrong. His name was Peter Neiling, and he was a Leutnat zur See der Reserve.

 

Best wishes,

Michael

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stevebecker
Posted (edited)

Michael,

 

Thanks mate.

 

Do you know anything about these man's death?

 

Strnad Karl    LSLt Marine    Linenschiffleutnant KUK U 3 U Boat   unknown    (1885 at Pohrlitz (Pohorelice) KIA 13-8-15) No ships sunk or damaged awarded Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War? 

 

And this KUK man

 

Lerch Egon    LSLt Marine    Linenschiffleutnant KUK U 5 U Boat     unknown    (born 1886 at Triest died 12-8-15) cause not stated KUK 1 ship sunk with a total of 1,065 GRT awarded Austrian Order of Leopold and Ottoman Medjidie Order Pre War? 
 

Just to confuse you here's a German;

 

Rohrscheidt Erich Freiherr von    ObLtzS to Kapt-Lt Marine    Commander UB 10 Flandern Flotilla 1916-17 to UB 42 Constantinople Flotilla 1918 U boat (check how he died?)    1918-    (1889 at Löbau KIA 2-7-18) died at Sevastopol shown (KIA 1-7-18 in the Laz. Sevastopol) grave at Tarabya Istanbul shown 3 ships sunk with a total of 2,666 GRT
 

Any ideas on how they died?

 

I notice I also show this man from a Turkish site?

 

Todenwarth von    ObLtzS (Kapt) Marine    U 21 Constantinople Flotilla - Libya'ya gider (Goes to Libya) U Boat     unknown    (not identified)?
 

Possibly on the U 21 when she was in the Med between 1915-17

 

but the U boat Net is confusing here?

 

unknown start - 4 Mar 1917 Pola Flotilla
1 Aug 1914 - 5 Jun 1915 III Flotilla
5 Jun 1915 - unknown end Constantinople Flotilla
4 Mar 1917 - 11 Nov 1918 III Flotilla

 

Cheers

 

S.B

Edited by stevebecker

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Michael Lowrey
Posted (edited)

Steve,

 

Strnad was killed when the Austrian U 3 was sunk on August 13, 1915.

 

Lerch was killed when the Austrian U 12 was sunk on August 12, 1915.

 

von Rohrscheidt died, i believe, of illness.Certainly not combat related. (Not a Freiherr)

 

von Todenwarth doesn't show up in the Ehrenrangliste der Kaiserlich Deutschen Marine, 1914-1918, so probably another misidentification or misspeliing by Wolf.

 

MPL

 

Edited by Michael Lowrey

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stevebecker

Michael,

 

Thanks mate that helps a lot.

 

I notice that von Todenwarth shows up at this site?

 

Die Einsätze von U 39 dienten auch der Unterstützung der aufständischen Sanusiya in Libyen. Im Dezember 1915 nahm U 39 das als Transport-U-Boot eingesetzte UC 12 in Schlepp und brachte es sicher vor die nordafrikanische Küste. Im Juli 1916 wurde eine kleine deutsch-türkische Landungsgruppe unter dem Kommando von Oberleutnant Paul Freiherr von Todenwarth[3] nach Nordafrika gebracht. Eine weitere Afrikafahrt mit Nachschubgütern folgte im Oktober 1916.[4] Auf dem Rückweg wurde der Leichnam von Otto-Felix Mannesmann nach Cattaro überführt.

 

Translated by Google

 

The U 39 missions also served to support the insurgent Sanusiya in Libya. In December 1915 U 39 towed the UC 12 used as a transport submarine and brought it safely to the North African coast. In July 1916 a small German-Turkish landing group was brought to North Africa under the command of Lieutenant Paul Freiherr von Todenwarth. Another trip to Africa with supplies followed in October 1916. On the way back the body was transferred from Otto-Felix Mannesmann to Cattaro.

 

I notice my mistake as I already had this man as a soldier

 

Todenwarth Paul Freiherr Wolff von    Lt Cav    Expedition to Libya sent to take over from Mannesmann     1916-18    (1876 at Todenwarth Thüringen died 1965) from unknown Cav Regt captured by Russian during a patrol at the end of 1914 and was brought to Siberia and spring 1915 he managed to escape along the Trans-Siberian Railway to neutral China to Western Front military intelligence awarded Ottoman War medal 
 

The Transport by U 21 made me think he was Navy?

 

Cheers

 

S.B

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Simon S.

Mates,

 

additionally: Friedrich Agrell served on UB 15 as well.

 

Regards

Simon

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Simon S.

Regarding the death of von Rohrscheidt: He died of heart paralysis caused by pneumonia.

 

Regards

Simon

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stevebecker

Simon,

 

Thanks mate,

 

Do you have a date for when Agrell served on UB 15?

 

Michael gave

 

Agrell was the LI on UB 14 in the Black Sea in 1915-16. He was later the LI on UC 22 and U 34 and survived the war. (He's not the guy we're looking for from UC 14.) Dates of rank:

 

Marine-Ingenieuraspirant: October 1, 1913

Marine-Ingenieuroberaspirant: late 1915 or maybe even January 1, 1916

Marine-Ingenieur: July 13, 1916

Marine-OberIngenieur: May 23, 1918

 

Cheers

 

S.B

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Simon S.

Hi Steve,

 

no, unfortunately not. In the past I have read in one of my sources that Agrell served on UB 15 too.

 

Regards,

 

Simon

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stevebecker

Mates,

 

Do you show this man on your records?

 

Heinke Curt    CWO to ObLtzS Marine    UB 7 Constantinople Flotilla U boat WO telgraf uzmani Karadeniz kiyilarina deniz haberlesmesi için istasyonlar kurar (telegraph expert Black Sea coast to establishes stations for maritime communication)    1916-17    (born at Schnaditz Preußen died 27-9-17) shown WIA 1916
 

Not mentioned in Wolf so I am unsure about him?

 

Any ideas

 

S.B

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stevebecker

Michael,

 

Another one for you?

 

Kandler    WO (LI) Eng Marine    Leitender Ingenieur (Chief Engineer Warrent officer) on UB 17 Flandern Flotilla Ingenieuroberaspirant officer candidate Senior Engineer Officer candidate U Boat    1915-16    shown in Klaus Wolf's Book
 

I am thinking again he mixed them up and he was on UB 7?

 

But then this boat already had

 

Grüter Paul    WO (LI) Eng Marine    Leitender Ingenieur (Chief Engineer Warrent officer) Ingenieuroberaspirant officer candidate UB 7 Constantinople Flotilla 1916 U boat
 

Who was killed on her?

 

His he recorded any where?

 

S.B

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Michael Lowrey
Posted (edited)

Heinke was killed when UB 7 got into a Bulgarian minefield soon after sailing from Varna on September 27, 1916. He was part of Crew 1909, promoted to to Leutnant zur See on September 19, 1912 and Oberleutnant zur See on May 2, 1915. Heinke was on Goeben in 1914 as the Mittlemeerdivision's chief radio officer and remained as such until joining UB 7 for a patrol.

Edited by Michael Lowrey

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Michael Lowrey

Max Kandler was the LI on UB 7 to March 1916. He then returned home and became the LI on U 50 and was killed when that was lost (presumed mined while outbound from Germany) on August 31/September 1, 1917. Kandler was a Marine-Ingenieuraspirant as of September 22, 1912, Marine-OberIngenieuraspirant probably as of January 27, 1915 and promoted to Marine-Ingenieur on September 18, 1915.

 

Grüter was UB 7's final LI and killed when the boat hit the Bulgarian mine.

 

You should also have Friedrich Kähler, who was the LI on UB 8 to February 1916 and was killed while serving as the LI on U 81. Same promotion dates as Kandler.  (He's the guy listed in the Ehrenrangliste after Kandler.)

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stevebecker
Posted (edited)

Michael,

 

Many thanks again your the best.

 

Stay safe

 

Cheers


S.B

 

PS

 

Mate can you fill in the gaps with this man?

 

Hitzler B.    WO (LI) Eng Marine    Leitender Ingenieur (Chief Engineer Warrent officer) Ingenieuroberaspirant officer candidate UC 15 Constantinople Flotilla 3-16 (replaced Krüger) U boat    1915-16    (KIA 30-11-16) Lost for unknown reason probably off Danube's mouth 15 dead (all hands lost)

 

And the men from UB 66 I couldn't find on the Verlustlisten 1. Weltkrieg

 

Fortmüller E.    ObLtzS Marine    UB 66 Constantinople Flotilla 1917-18  U boat    1917-18     (born at KIA 18-1-18) Missing in the Eastern Mediterreanean 30 dead (all hands lost)
 

Haller Ernst    Matrosen Marine     UB 66 Constantinople Flotilla 1917-18  U boat    1917-18     (born at KIA 18-1-18) Missing in the Eastern Mediterreanean 30 dead (all hands lost)
 

Petzold Fritz    WO (LI) Eng Marine    Leitender Ingenieur (Chief Engineer Warrent officer) UB 66 Constantinople Flotilla 1917 Ingenieuroberaspirant officer candadate U boat    1917-18     (born at KIA 18-1-18) Missing in the Eastern Mediterreanean 30 dead (all hands lost)
 

Steffens Hellmut    Maschinen Maat Marine     UB 66 Constantinople Flotilla 1917-18  U boat    1917-18     (born at Kiel KIA 18-1-18) Missing in the Eastern Mediterreanean 30 dead (all hands lost)
 

Wernicke Fritz    Kapt-Lt Marine    Commander UB 42 Constantinople Flotilla 1916-17 & UB 66 Constantinople Flotilla 1917-18  U boat    1916-18    (1885 - KIA 18-1-18) Missing in the Eastern Mediterreanean 30 dead (all hands lost). 8 ships sunk with a total of 8,100 GRT
 

S.B

Edited by stevebecker

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