53 Bde attack on Delville Wood 19 July 1916

[David_Blanchard]

I preparing to write an article about the attack carried out by 53 Bde on Delville Wood. This is an example of a disastrous ‘penny packet’ attack carried out on the Somme. I have a number of questions about this. Who would have made this decision for this relatively small scale offensive? Would if have been made directly by perhaps Rawlinson at Fourth Army? Or would the XIII Corps had the authority to carry out this on their own initiative? 
 

The attack seems to been implemented by 9 Division- but were loaned out 53 Brigade from 18 Division to participate. Was this common? And certainly seems to have been one reason for the poor link up between 9 Division’s artillery and the attack carried out by the infantry of 53 Brigade.

Any help, suggestions for sources of information, appreciated.

 

David 

[KIRKY]

Hi I would be interested to know more about this attack, I have a relative kia this day with 8th Norfolks and would like to walk their path next March.

He was Pte Charles Riseborough 22396 A Coy 8th Norfolks, on Thiepval. From Wickmere Norfolk.

Tony

[MaxD]

Kirky

 

For starters, if you haven't already done so, the 8 Norfolks war diary can be downloaded (free for the moment) at:http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352991

 

Max

 

[David_Blanchard]

Thanks- I have most of the diaries associated with the 53 Bde for this day but not 8 Suffolks- probably need to download 9 Division as well as the attack was under their devolved command from Fourth Army.

 

unfortunately reached my limit on WD downloads at the moment. 

[MaxD]

Ancestry here if convenient:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60779/images/43849_2040_1-00252?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=d157aa9f8489cad3ae90098d902e06f2&usePUB=true&_phsrc=vLI1017&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=660833&backurl=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsse.dll%3F_phsrc%3DvLI1017%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D60779%26cp%3D0%26gskw%3D2040%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26uidh%3D6x5%26redir%3Dfalse%26msT%3D1%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D22%26h%3D660833%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D23%26queryId%3Dd157aa9f8489cad3ae90098d902e06f2

Max

[David_Blanchard]

Yes, thanks didn’t think of that!

[David_Blanchard]

Good article here on the then Brigadier General of the 53 Bde, Harold Whitla Higginson

 

http://www.greatwar.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/The-Blue-Cap-14.pdf

[KIRKY]

49 minutes ago, MaxD said:

Kirky

 

For starters, if you haven't already done so, the 8 Norfolks war diary can be downloaded (free for the moment) at:http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352991

 

Max

 

Checked this out and is very detailed and makes great reading , thanks

Tony

[PRC]

7 hours ago, David_Blanchard said:

Who would have made this decision for this relatively small scale offensive? Would if have been made directly by perhaps Rawlinson at Fourth Army? Or would the XIII Corps had the authority to carry out this on their own initiative? 

 

"The 18th Division in the Great War" by G.H.F. Nichols, (1922) had this to say starting page 70, ("Chapter V. Delville Wood"),

 

The Division, after the hard fighting since 1st July, had calculated upon a lengthy period out of the line, and was indeed preparing for it, when at 7 p.m. on 18th July a telephone message from XIII Corps demanded the immediate despatch of a brigade to assist 9th Division. The 53rd Brigade, which had been relieved from the task of guarding Trones by the 105th Brigade of the 35th Division, at once marched to Talus Boise, and coming under the orders of 9th Division, learned that the northern part of the battered village of Longueval and all Delville Wood, with the exception of the south west corner, had been lost by the South African Brigade. The 53rd Infantry Brigade was to recapture these positions at dawn the next day. General Higginson pointed out that it would be impossible to get the Brigade up in time, and ultimately it was decided that the attack should take place as soon as the Brigade was ready, and that the artiilery barrage should be put on by the 9th Division.

Hopefully this link should take you to the relevant page of the online version.

http://access.bl.uk/item/viewer/ark:/81055/vdc_100022557085.0x000002#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=96&z=-0.2617%2C0%2C2.5234%2C1.6311&xywh=911%2C115%2C2758%2C1346

 

The War Diary of the 8th Norfolks shows that while the Colonel and the Intelligence Officer were at Divisional Headquarters on the evening of the 14th awaiting orders, (presumably for an attack), there is no such note on the single entry for the 15th to 17th, when the Battalion was in shelters in Trigger Valley. They would remain there until 7.30 p.m. on the 18th before moving on orders from Brigade. They bivouacked the night just east of CARNOY in TALUS BOIS salient.

 

The first entry in the diary for the 19th reads

 

"At 1.30 am Brigade Major arrived at Battalion Headquarters stating that Battalion was to proceed to valley north of MONTAUBAN and counter-attack as soon as possible on DELVILLE WOOD. Colonel and Adjutant immediately proceeded to Brigade Headquarters in MARICOUT and were then given the orders for the attack, in the meantime, Battalion proceeded to the valley at about S.22.c and d under Major L. Fletcher and remained there until the arrival of the Colonel and the Adjutant."

 

The appendices for the July 1916 War Diary nearly all relate to the preparations for the July 1st attack - nearly all barely changed from the same appendices at the end of the June 1916 entry. There is just one page relating to Delville Wood and that is a dry list of names. However in the June appendices, (or at least in the version of the Battalion War Diary I paid to download many moons ago ) there is a handwritten narrative and lessons learned piece by Lieutenant-Colonel Ferguson on the Operations at Delville Wood July 19th - 22nd. Easy to overlook as it's not where you'd expect to find it.

 

I've had cause in the past to transcribe the War Diary entry for the 19th July for the 8th Norfolks. Let me know if you'd like it posted here.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Edited 15 July , 2020 by PRC
Typo

[David_Blanchard]

Excellent thanks Peter- this operational order from Fourth Army on 18 July sets the objective for Guillemont and Ginchy- looks like XIII Corps were expected to carry this out-and first objective in that instance would have been to consolidate position in Delville Wood after the South Africans had been counterattacked.

Edited 15 July , 2020 by David_Blanchard

[TEW]

I've just looked through XIII Corps HQ diaries WO95/895/3 to 5.

 

Rather a lot to go into and you may already have them. Lots of relevant appendices spread throughout all 3 diaries.

 

One says the attack on 19th was in conjunction with XV corps' attack on High Wood.

TEW

[David_Blanchard]

Yes I have the Corps diaries- will look through them in detail tomorrow 

 

thanks for replying. it may also be instructive to access 9 Division-,who provided the artillery or lack of for the attack. 

Edited 15 July , 2020 by David_Blanchard

[TEW]

The corps diaries have separated divisional Standing Orders and artillery tables.

Lots in them but different aspects spread throughout all 3, sometimes out of sequence, some not dated and the usual interesting sounding appendix that's missing.

TEW

[PRC]

20 minutes ago, David_Blanchard said:

it may also be instructive to access 9 Division-,who provided the artillery or lack of for the attack.

 

From Lieutenant Colonel Ferguson's lessons learned, so presumably had been an issue in this attack.

 

(2) Stokes guns, if the ammunition question can be solved, would be of great value in knocking out enemy machine guns where the wood allows for them doing so.

 

(3) Artillery barrage should be put on wood for some considerable period before the infantry attack. Barrage should be lifted at intervals of at least 150 yards, or else barrage is dangerous + detrimental to attacking line.

 

(4) S.O.S, as far as possible should be arranged by F.O.O. by telephone as rockets are difficult to use in woods + confusing to our artillery.

 

There doesn't seem to be an absense of artillery and there was communication going on. For example:

 

“A” and “B” Companies moved off from the Valley S.22.d at 5.30 am.

Just before arriving at the S W corner of the wood “A” Company deployed and “B” company came up on the left of “A” to follow suit, but “B” Company was fired on by heavy Machine Gun Fire from just North of Princes Street and had to come round and deploy on the right of “A” Company, which at the same time eased along to their left up to PRINCES STREET making room on their right for “B” Company. This had considerably delayed the deployment and on receipt of messages from “A” and “B” Companies, Brigade was informed that attack could not commence until 7.15 am and was requested to keep the barrage on the South Portion of the Wood until that hour.

 

An alternative spin on this is to be found in G.H.F. Nichols book on page 71.

"It was arranged that the O.C. of the Norfolks should inform Brigade Headquarters of the hour at which he would be ready for the artiilery barrage to be put on. The hour was provisionally settled for 6.15 a.m. on 19th July; but subsequently this hour had to be altered, and it was not until 7.15 a.m that the attack could be launched. A message to this effect was sent to Brigade Headquarters, but it was not received until 7.51 a.m.; consequently no artillery support was arranged for, and the attacked proceeded without it".

 

I can only assume that means the initial attack, but even that is at odds with the War Diairies of both the Norfolks and the Royal Berkshires.

 

8th Norfolks

7.15am. Attack went forward well on the right, and “B” Company had little difficulty in reaching CAMPBELL STREET about 7.45am, but on the left “A” Company were very badly held up by enfilade machine gun fire coming from just North of PRINCES STREET. The Battalion Bombers were working along this flank but were not able to go over PRINCES STREET to tackle the machine gun owing to the fact of our own barrage that was on this portion of the wood. The two left platoons of “A” Company suffered very heavy casualties, both their officers, 2nd Lieut H M MacNicol and 2nd Lieut B W Benn being killed, accordingly a platoon from “C” Company went up in support. (My highlight)

 

I suspect this might have prompted Colonel Fergusons comments of the danger of the barrage and the use of Stokes guns to suppress the machine gun fire - clearly artillery tactics of the day wasn't doing it.

 

Attacks by the Norfolks at 11 am and the other three Battalions of the Brigade at 2 p.m. were co-ordinated with the lifting of the barrage - according to the Norfolks War Diary.

 

The confusion of war also has a role to play. The War Diary of the 6th Royal Berkshire makes several references to other units, including the Norfolks, not having done all that they said they had. They state the barrage lifted at 7.05 but the Norfolks had yet to attack. The Norfolks report the southern half of the woods clear at 11.40, but by 11.55 the Royal Berkshires are held up by machine gun fire there.

"NOON - CO arranged for rebombardment to start at 1pm for 30 minutes and for assault to take place after.
1pm - Heavies falling short among our own men. Shrapnel bursting short.
1.30pm - Barrage lifted. It was impossible to tell that a bombardment was on as the rate of fire was so slow and Coys had to be informed that it was time to attack. "

 

Would be interesting to know on what side the diaries of the 10th Essex and 8th Suffolks come down.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

 

 

[David_Blanchard]

Thanks for all this information- Colonel Ferguson from which Battalion?

 

The really interesting take on the attack is to be the account of Brig Gen H W Higginson quoted and paraphrased at length by Prior and Wilson ‘The Somme’ Pages 145 to 146 from a cab document - outlines all of the problems involved in the preparatory phase of the operation. 

But thanks again for al, the help and time you must have put in. Do you a personal reason for being interested in this action?

[MaxD]

You've probably read Peter Hart's "The Somme" which notes that [after 14 July] Rawlinson "intended a moratorium on piecemeal attacks before a properly coordinated attack on a broad front could be organised - which eventually occurred on 23 July" and later " that whatever its army commander may have intended, his subordinates were still intent on launching isolated attacks that had little or no chance of success".   The account of the 19 July starts with "On 15 July, 9th Division were given the task of completing the capture of the wood".

 

That certainly suggests in Hart's view that it wasn't Rawlinson who .set the thing off.

 

Max

[David_Blanchard]

Interesting but buy the same token, Prior and Wilson in the ‘Somme’ ‘ on the same day that Congreve ....heard that isolated attacks were over, he received instructions that from Fourth Army HQ ordering him to capture Delville Wood at all costs without delay.’ Page 145. - source ref being 9 Division War Diary ‘Narrative of events’ WO 95/1735. 
 

I will have to download this WD. 

Edited 15 July , 2020 by David_Blanchard

[PRC]

1 hour ago, David_Blanchard said:

Thanks for all this information- Colonel Ferguson from which Battalion?

But thanks again for al, the help and time you must have put in. Do you a personal reason for being interested in this action?

 

Lieutenant-Colonel Henry Gaspard de Lavalette Ferguson was the commanding officer of the 8th Norfolks at this time.

 

Unfortunately the death tolls from actions like this means that when you researching the names on local, (well to me), War Memorials, the same events tend to crop up time after time. I've been too well trained to rely on just a single source, and I'm on too strict a budget not to be creative with where I find my sources

 

Cheers,

Peter

[David_Blanchard]

I guess you know Steve Smith- I think his new book out autumn deals with 8 Norfolks on the Somme.

Edited 15 July , 2020 by David_Blanchard

[KIRKY]

Where was Trigger Valley?

Tony

[MaxD]

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=49.96974&lon=2.75151&layers=101465323&b=1  In F 30 c (McMaster) .  On  the edge of the map but then they always are!

 

Max

[TEW]

I'm seeing very little in 4th Army diaries WO95/431 1-4.

 

431/4 has an order that the 4th Army attack on the 19th July has been postponed due to the weather. This was issued at 7.30pm 18th July.

 

431/ has detailed and time marked sheets showing events from 14th - 31st July. As far as I can see those for 19th are the only ones missing.

TEW

[David_Blanchard]

 Prior and Wilson in the ‘Somme’ ‘ on the same day that Congreve ....heard that isolated attacks were over, he received instructions that from Fourth Army HQ ordering him to capture Delville Wood at all costs without delay.’ Page 145. - source ref being 9 Division War Diary ‘Narrative of events’ WO 95/1735. 
 

 

- from above just about to download the above War Diary

[phil andrade]

This is such a much needed boost to the historiography when it comes to the record of the British contingents in the Battle.

 

Mention Delville Wood, or the 19th July 1916, and the resonant associations are bound to be the South Africans at the Wood and the Australians at Fromelles respectively....and with darned good reason.

 

It’s so important to remember that the County Regiments of Britain fought over these places, and at these times, too : John Terrain made that point and this first rate thread reiterates it.

 

Phil

[TEW]

David, did you download 6th Royal Berks. WO95/2037 1-5. Quite a bit of detail from those plus around 60 messages on C2121 sheets spreading from 2037/1 to 2037/5, the latter out of sequence with 20th July.

TEW