Mickab Posted 9 July , 2020 Share Posted 9 July , 2020 (edited) My Grandfather Sid Smith 2nd left bottom row, written on the reverse is "How do I look as a French Officer " Sid was a regular RGA before the war, stationed at one of the Gosport Forts. His Military Medal card has him in 166th Siege Battery as Battery Quarter Master Sergeant (acting Battery Sergeant Major) Reg No 280764 His Medal index card has him with 1915 Star, Victory Medal and British Medal, he was also awarded the French Croix De Guerre and I wonder if this photo was taken at that time. The five soldiers at the rear have a look of "France"about them,The four seated in the front are British ,with the officer on the right ? I have long wished to research his army life, and have the MM, Victory and British Medal but not the Croix de Guerre or 1915 star. Have other photos of him before and during the war,and will post them as well. This photo has to be one of my most treasured possesions, if anybody has any comments on the photo I would be pleased to hear from them. Edited 9 July , 2020 by Mickab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 9 July , 2020 Share Posted 9 July , 2020 The British look French and the French look British. The man in the back row 2nd left wouldn't have been allowed whiskers like that in the RGA surely. Nice photo. (A bit grey. Would you mind if I fiddled with the contrast a bit and re-post?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 July , 2020 Share Posted 9 July , 2020 (edited) It’s an exceedingly odd photograph! Several of the men have very un-British moustaches, and one even a full beard that wouldn’t have been permitted for British soldiers (apart from infantry battalion Pioneer Sergeants). Have these men actually swapped jackets? Was it a play? Do you know anything at all about the circumstances of the sitting? Edited 9 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 9 July , 2020 Share Posted 9 July , 2020 I think Dai's right, looks like Allies swapping caps and jackets for a bit of whimsy. That "cavalryman" seated on the left looks very un-French, uniform notwithstanding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 9 July , 2020 Share Posted 9 July , 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said: I think Dai's right, looks like Allies swapping caps and jackets for a bit of whimsy. That "cavalryman" seated on the left looks very un-French, uniform notwithstanding! Yes I agree, the moustaches and beards look real enough, which suggests that the group had swapped jackets as something of a lark. One can see that the fellow seated front right appears to have British SD trousers, boots and puttees, but a foreign upper garment. Edited 9 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 9 July , 2020 Share Posted 9 July , 2020 Yes, only 2 (maybe 3) men in the front row wearing puttees. The one standing back right (on a small stool) is wearing rather unbritish boots . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 9 July , 2020 Share Posted 9 July , 2020 50 minutes ago, Mickab said: His Military Medal card has him in 166th Siege Battery as Battery Quarter Master Sergeant (acting Battery Sergeant Major) Reg No 280764 He is also recorded, as a witness at an injury inquiry, under his original no. 5764. As a time expired pre war gunner he re-enlisted under a one year service agreement, or duration of war if longer, as a Special Reservist. The renumbering did not take place until 1917 when they conveniently just added 275000. The link to FMP is https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO363-4%2F007316074%2F00448&parentid=GBM%2FWO363-4%2FSUPP%2F197490 . At the time he was serving with 19th Siege Battery. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickab Posted 9 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2020 Many thanks for the replies Please adjust the contrast if you would like, I have tried but it loses some of the detail in the process. Yes they have swapped jackets as I suggested the four seated are RGA. Thanks for the info on 19th Siege Battery,( I am not signed up to FMP at the moment) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickab Posted 9 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2020 I have just edited the photo a bit brighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 9 July , 2020 Share Posted 9 July , 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Mickab said: I have just edited the photo a bit brighter That's much better thanks. I think it's clear that the two men, front row are looking at maps. Tantalising. Shame we can't see just a little more detail in them. Anybody else think they've seen the picture before? Edited 9 July , 2020 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 9 July , 2020 Share Posted 9 July , 2020 London Gazette entry for the MM: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31512/supplement/10564 I don't find a Croix de Guerre published in the LG?? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickab Posted 9 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2020 Thanks for the London Gazette Link. Only have the Ribbon to the Croix De Guerre (French) Is it usually listed in the LG ?,I only have verbal testament that he had been awarded it. I have wondered why the picture was taken with the French Allies,and it seemed plausible that they were all recipients of the Croix de Guerre,and this was taken before the ceremony,I may be wrong. Are there any members who would know about the distinctive French Uniforms? Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 9 July , 2020 Share Posted 9 July , 2020 It should be published - typical list from Dec 1916 here: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31512/supplement/10564 With a name like Smith, I searched 1914 - 1925 using his service number(s) which is anyway usually more reliabie - may have missed it but don't think so.. There is a specific thread for Uniforms, Cap Badges and Insignia - a title "French Army Uniforms" may catch the attention of the right folk. I must say I get the impression that some of the non British uniforms are out of the dressing up box - but this is not my field really! max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickab Posted 10 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2020 Thank you for your help. It is looking like I will have to accept that Sid was not a recipient of the Croix de Guerre. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wexflyer Posted 10 July , 2020 Share Posted 10 July , 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mickab said: Thank you for your help. It is looking like I will have to accept that Sid was not a recipient of the Croix de Guerre. Mick I think you are putting too much trust in the optical character recognition algorithm, and search capability for the London Gazette. Edited 10 July , 2020 by Wexflyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 10 July , 2020 Share Posted 10 July , 2020 Wexflyer has a point (although I have just completed a nil return search for S Smith and Sidney Smith and Smith Royal Garrison Artillery). It is best to say that [so far] no evidence has been found of the award of the Croix. Have you been able to search local newspapers? Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 10 July , 2020 Share Posted 10 July , 2020 Just to add my two-penn'oth to Max and Wexflyer's wisdom - I find searching the LG a painful and often fruitless process, wouldn't necessarily assume the results you get are 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxD Posted 10 July , 2020 Share Posted 10 July , 2020 3 hours ago, Pat Atkins said: wouldn't necessarily assume the results you get are 100%. I wouldn't put it that way. If you find the person by some means or another then the result can be relied upon to be accurate at least all those I've looked for are. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 10 July , 2020 Share Posted 10 July , 2020 Yes, agreed, that's a fairer way to put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickab Posted 10 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 10 July , 2020 Many thanks for the time some of you are putting in, it's much appreciated. I will have to consult the local papers, (that would be the Maidenhead Advertiser,) and sign up to Find my Past, as Kevin has tracked down some interesting Information on that site. Here is a photo of a younger, Lance Bombardier Sid Smith (left )with a Gun Layers insignia , RGA Fort Grange Gosport. And a 1904 picture of him receiving the RA cup. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 11 July , 2020 Share Posted 11 July , 2020 12 hours ago, Mickab said: Here is a photo of a younger, Lance Bombardier Sid Smith (left )with a Gun Layers insignia , RGA Fort Grange Gosport. And a 1904 picture of him receiving the RA cup. You should probably get his earlier service records for these photos - https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO97%2F5951%2F114%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO97%2F5951%2F1023296 . He passed his layers test on the 27/4/1911. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickab Posted 11 July , 2020 Author Share Posted 11 July , 2020 Thanks for that information,I'll get signed up to FMP next week. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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