The RHA Chestnut Troop help if possible

[Lionel Denny]

Currently researching my Grandfather's WW1 experiences, he was a Gunner in the RHA "A" Brigade also known as the Chestnut Troop. He joined up as an 18 year old in 1909 and when the Great War started he was in India attached to the Ambala Cavalry Brigade. I have just been able to acquire a postcard with the Chestnut Troop shown and I am certain my Grandfather, Frederick G. Denny, is on the second row up, 7 along from the left. However I am confused as his WWI records show him as a Gunner, but on the picture he appears to have a single stripe. He was wounded in March 1918 and the records say he had a Wound Stripe but this picture looks much earlier. I would really appreciate any help.

[Sepoy]

This nice group photograph was taken after the Great War because WW1 Medals are being worn. Collar badges are also being worn which again is another Post Great War indicator. I think this photograph could date from about 1922 and could have been taken in the 1930s.
Did your Grandfather continue to serve after the Great War???

Sepoy.

NB Have you downloaded the Battery's War Diaries from the National Archives Website (you have to register but they are currently free to download)? See here:-
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351692
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351583
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/c4a30148db584bc79b6a002d4ec9d888
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/5118eb10ae4f459e830a0f23c4c70b55

[rflory]

The officer in the center who appears to be a Major and Battery Commander is wearing only a Great War pair (BWM/VM) as is the Lieutenant to his left.  The Captain on the Major's right is wearing an MC and Great War trio.  Through out the 1920s the Major commanding A/RHA was decorated with either the DSO or the DSO and MC.  The first time that the Battery Commander did not have a decoration was 1929 and at that time the Battery Captain had an MC. By November 1931 the Battery Captain had both the DSO and MC. This would appear to indicate that the photo was taken sometime between 1929 and early 1931, which is further reinforced by the fact that very few of the other ranks are wearing Great War medals.

[Old Forge]

9 hours ago, Lionel Denny said:

Currently researching my Grandfather's WW1 experiences, he was a Gunner in the RHA "A" Brigade also known as the Chestnut Troop. 

Hi Lionel, Could you please confirm you mean A Battery, The Chestnut Troop? A Gunner 'Brigade' in WW1 is equivalent to a Gunner Regiment today (e.g. 1 RHA, where The Chestnut Troop is the senior battery). From March 1917, The Chestnut Troop, Q and U Batteries (all from the Indian Cavalry Corps) were formed into an Army Field Artillery Brigade (AFA) - 16 Brigade, RHA.126 RHA Brigade (also an AFA) also had an A Battery (which, confusingly, was RFA not RHA...) In November 1918 there were 8 RHA Brigades on the Western Front - 7, 3 and 4 Brigades with 1, 2 and 3 Cav Divs respectively, 15 Brigade RHA with 29th Division and 14, 126, 5 and 16 Brigades in the AFA organisation.

 

Richard

[Lionel Denny]

Thanks you so much for prompt responses. From the information you all provided it may have eliminated my Grandfather as he had joined the Chestnut Troop in 1909 and I believe he was discharged in April 1919. I have obtained copies of some of the the War Diaries and found some extraordinary details of how he was injured in March 1918 when a German shell had a hit on the guns, with 1 man killed and 7 severely injured, also horses killed. He  was hospitalised for 5 days and again I think returned to duty in Labour Corps. I have attached a picture of him pre war in his uniform and I think you can see the likeness. Thanks again for the helpful information guys.

[charlie962]

2 hours ago, Lionel Denny said:

I believe he was discharged in April 1919.

Lionel,

Yes his Silver War Badge details say he was discharged from the Labour Corps, no 626151**, 4/4/19 due to Sickness., having originally enlisted 30/3/1909.

He might have been eligible for a Pension for a while but a check of WesternFrontAssociation Pension Cards does not show anything- yet. There are still the majority of cards in process of being scanned for those who were not killed.

 

But I notice that on his Marriage certificate 2/6/19 he still describes himself as 'Soldier', and why not.

 

I note he is on the 1911 Census for the Battery at Aldershott, here on FindmyPast.

 

The smart photo of him shows 2 Good Conduct Chevrons/stripes.  I think these would suggest he had a minimum of 5 yrs service at the time suggesting photo would be 1914 at earliest. @FROGSMILE to correct me please !

 

Charlie

 

PS  The Chestnuts used to have a 'Battery History' room where they had a variety of records and photographs. It ought to be worthwhile trying to contact them to see what they still hold ? Perhaps these sort of things have now been transferred to RA Museum ?

 

**edit  I think that LC number suggests a transfer to Labour Corps around August 1918.

Edited 9 July , 2020 by charlie962

[Lionel Denny]

Many thanks Charlie some very, very helpful info. Wondered what the process was after transfer to the Labour Corps after about 9 years service in the Chestnut Troop? Was that a completely independent part of the British Army or was he still connected to the RHA until discharge? If seperate that rules out the possibility of him being on the Chestnut Troop picture although it is very much like him. I will definitely follow up the History Room recommendation. Thanks again, much appreciated.

[charlie962]

4 hours ago, Lionel Denny said:

I will definitely follow up the History Room recommendation

I would be keen to know if you make progress !

 

The Labour Corps was a self contained Corps and seperate from the Royal Artillery. But most soldiers continued to refer to their old Regiment. Even those killed whilst serving with the Labour Corps are accepted by Commonwealth War Graves as having their original Regiment on their headstone.

 

Charlie

[Lionel Denny]

Wondered if anyone has tried facial recognition software. I used one to compare the picture of my Grandfather in uniform to the one from the Chestnut Troop and got a 78% likeness.

[charlie962]

17 minutes ago, Lionel Denny said:

Wondered if anyone has tried facial recognition software. I used one to compare the picture of my Grandfather in uniform to the one from the Chestnut Troop and got a 78% likeness.

Worrying, isn't it, that one might be mis-identified!

I think rflory's ID of date for that photo is absolutely correct. The Battery were in UK at the time just before setting off for Cairo.

 

The RA Attestation Ledger has survived and would tell us if a Frederick G Denny had re-enlisted in the RA after WW1. There is no sign.

 

A check of MoD 'Held' Service files for pre 1901 born men discharged after 1920 does list a file for an FG Denny born 30/3/1892. The Service Number quoted is D/29756 and he was with the Royal Norfolk Regiment. So presumably not your man.

 

charlie

 

PS to answer your question I recall there has been discussion on this forum about that sort of software. The latest ID software can identify you from the way you walk, they say.

Edited 10 July , 2020 by charlie962